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Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

nature.com

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Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#201

Post by cf141q5325 »

incrudible wrote: post #148
seydor wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does it really matter, if even a mild reinfection increases your risk of so many diseases and death?

It does matter whether the science is misprepresented, causing irrational anxiety in people, which also increases your risk of "so many diseases and death". Respiratory infections generally increase your risk for various pathologies, but so does staying indoors in fear, not getting exercise and avoiding social contact.

Considering the impact on peoples emotions and behavior when communicating data (instead of just warning them of these possible pitfalls) is an extremely slippery slope that quickly leads to an impairment of the sensemaking process. Be it due to self censorship as well or a loss of trust when people recognize they are getting managed. In the end its not anyone call to determine what information and expected reactions would be better for other adults.

I find it a lot more fruitful to elaborate why the data doesnt support those conclusions. This way we dont risk slipping down this slope and instead actually help each other fix our errors.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#202

Post by alchemist1e9 »

cf141q5325 wrote: post #193
alchemist1e9 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on you don’t even know the definition of IFR? Seriously. You linked to CFR data yet frame it as IFR, this is like an amateur level discussion if we are back to discussion IFR and CFR. I don’t even know where to start if that is where we are at.

>I don’t even know where to start if that is where we are at. I have been thinking about this a bit, i believe the pandemic (and this conversation) has been a great example for the general limits of distributed sensemaking and how it breaks down at communicating (and capsuling) all the relevant aspects and perspectives to a topic or statement. I think in the end everyone has their map of the problem and we are failin…

I definitely agree.

In general people have very poor intuition around risks and orders of magnitude. With Covid this is truly extreme differences in risk, under 18 with IFR of 20 per 1M but over 65 with 90,000 per 1M. 4,500x different risk.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#203

Post by [deleted] »

cf141q5325 wrote: post #199
seydor wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some studies that infection actually may make it easier to catch it again https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1841 and that covid causes immunological dysfuction even 8 months later https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-021-01113-x

Thanks for the links. The science study seems to be looking at the tipple vaccinated. There seems to be some indication, that this might influence the risk of reinfection as well. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v... See Figure 2 (end of the paper). Preprint, but pretty straightforward census of hospital staff.

[deleted]

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#204

Post by npunt »

thenerdhead wrote: post #157

This is very comprehensive and highlights the major challenges with something so novel. I hope more doctors read up on these challenges. I’ve been lucky to have doctors advocate for me recently now that more research is coming out. Especially around diagnosis, markers, and treatments. Many are just self diagnosing given many cannot find any underlying cause. While I’m one of the unlucky ones who gets long Covid with…

Thanks for your story Jon, found it helpful.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#205

Post by thenerdhead »

npunt wrote: post #204
thenerdhead wrote: post #157

This is very comprehensive and highlights the major challenges with something so novel. I hope more doctors read up on these challenges. I’ve been lucky to have doctors advocate for me recently now that more research is coming out. Especially around diagnosis, markers, and treatments. Many are just self diagnosing given many cannot find any underlying cause. While I’m one of the unlucky ones who gets long Covid with…

Thanks for your story Jon, found it helpful.

Thanks for reading!

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#206

Post by amatecha »

nikolay wrote: post #107

COVID-19 is no joke. I know people want to move on with their lives, but people should stick to N95/KN-95/KF-94/FFP2/FFP3 masks for the time being unless we want to create a massive health care crisis and ruin the global economy as the if people get reinfected every few months, this would be imminent!

Yup, I have avoided COVID this whole time by simply wearing KN95. It's really not that hard. Actually, the hardest part is dealing with ridicule and condescension from people who think I'm being "paranoid" or overly careful. Maybe if everyone took that level of precaution, we wouldn't be where we are. I set my policy when a friend's mother died quickly from COVID.. People straight up dying is pretty much a "yup I'm wearing a mask" trigger for me. The constantly-trickling-out research on COVID's effects have repeatedly validated my stance. Not getting COVID despite being in public and in crowds and near people who are just coughing into the air (maskless of course) has also validated my stance.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#207

Post by toofy »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #104
toofy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but you’re still not allowed to say that. you literally just said it.

His post is currently greyed out (downvoted), so that may not be the best evidence against his claim...

so maybe it would be more appropriate to say, “other people disagree with this” rather than playing some strange kind of victim with “they won’t allow me to speak!”

we’re allowed to disagree.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#208

Post by nikolay »

amatecha wrote: post #206
nikolay wrote: post #107

COVID-19 is no joke. I know people want to move on with their lives, but people should stick to N95/KN-95/KF-94/FFP2/FFP3 masks for the time being unless we want to create a massive health care crisis and ruin the global economy as the if people get reinfected every few months, this would be imminent!

Yup, I have avoided COVID this whole time by simply wearing KN95. It's really not that hard. Actually, the hardest part is dealing with ridicule and condescension from people who think I'm being "paranoid" or overly careful. Maybe if everyone took that level of precaution, we wouldn't be where we are. I set my policy when a friend's mother died quickly from COVID.. People straight up dying is pretty much a "yup I'm w…

Two of my cousins died from COVID-19, and one of my best friends - first her daughter died, and then she got it from her grandson. I don't recall a single person dying from flu - and I know thousands!

That was my point as well - if everybody wore the proper mask for a month around the globe, this would have been over with long ago! But, no, people feel entitled to make this stay here and continue to kill millions each year!

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#209

Post by ETH_start »

nikolay wrote: post #165
galoisscobi wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly agree. It’s been frustrating to deal with this at work. I’m at a FAANG, and we’re required to come in 3 days a week. Coworkers came in visibly sick coughing away without wearing a mask. I wrote to people support and they say they can’t do anything about it, just recommend that I wear a mask and that’s about it.

Millions if not billions get sick every year, because sick people don't want to stay home. This irresponsible behavior should be regulated somehow otherwise people won't change!

Or people can just acquire immunity through exposure.

Re: Long Covid: major findings, mechanisms and recommendations

#210

Post by nikolay »

ETH_start wrote: post #209
nikolay wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions if not billions get sick every year, because sick people don't want to stay home. This irresponsible behavior should be regulated somehow otherwise people won't change!

Or people can just acquire immunity through exposure.

You can't acquire meaningful immunity against such a highly contagious and rapidly mutating RNA virus! After measures were removed and people stopped wearing face masks, the phylogenic tree went bonkers [0]!

[0]: https://nextstrain.org/ncov/gisaid/global/6m

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