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The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

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Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#201

Post by kybernetikos »

moistly wrote: post #192
kybernetikos wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what else you'd expect. Those things are caused by humans taking advantage of whatever system of value transfer exists, of course people will do the best they can to reinvent these things on top of new value systems. On the other hand, unlike the actual infinite money printer central bank, nobody forces you to use obvious scams like tether. You don't need to use a centralised exchange because smart contr…

> Those things are caused by humans taking advantage of whatever system of value transfer exists, of course people will do the best they can to reinvent these things on top of new value systems. It would be nice if at least one person would leapfrog all this 1850s US Frontier West banking history, which was dominated by frauds and theft, and offer us a system working under modern reforms: Glass–Steagall Act, Sarbanes…

To use the same approach that the modern financial system uses, we'll need legal systems to catch up, I presume that that will happen, even if a lot of the community don't really want it to. Some of it can be addressed in new ways of course, but there are some aspects that fundamentally need a working legal system to implement.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#202

Post by lrvick »

mym1990 wrote: post #128
lrvick wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except crypto actually works for its intended use cases. I use it constantly. Maybe it works poorly for traders but those of us actually using cryptoassets for privacy, inflation resistance, and censorship resistance ignore the scams and traders. Scams and traders dominate the conversation of most new technology. Same things happen in traditional markets. Cults of personality and false promises by corporations inflat…

Inflation resistance is meaningless for a currency that has wild fluctuations, and not just sometimes, but on a daily basis. You have to be joking to say that something that went from basically 0, to 61k, down to 16k and wild swings in between that is "inflation resistant".

Not joking at all. Inflation hits you the most in the long term. If you acquire deflationary but volatile assets like Bitcoin for long term holding, you use dollar cost averaging so the swings become meaningless. Buy a little every month.

I was buying at $10, $1k, $10k, $60k, and everywhere between. I will be buying at 100k too.

Deflationary assets trend to be short term volatile, but long term up.

https://inv.riverside.rocks/watch?v=XbZ8zDpX2Mg

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#203

Post by sershe »

AstralStorm wrote: post #193
luckylion wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon doesn't accept cash. Is cash not money? They don't accept $foreignCurrency either, is that no longer money when you cross the border? Or do you mean "money is what you can use to pay your taxes"? That works to exclude crypto, at least for most of the world.

Funny, Amazon does accept cash on delivery, so you are factually wrong. Doubly wrong since Amazon also accepts gift cards which can be bought with cash.

Where does Amazon accept cash on delivery? Also, by this logic Amazon accepts electronic cash that can be "bought" with crypto, right? Maybe dollars are just gift cards for bitcoin :P

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#204

Post by sershe »

rvz wrote: post #191
jeremyjh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't money. Money can be easily exchanged for goods and services. It is a digital "asset" whose only meaningful application is speculative trading...of itself. If something only has value because you think you can sell it to the next sucker for more, it is a ponzi scheme.

> It isn't money. And it is somehow 'money' only when it suits projects and places like HN. [0] I'm sure any of you would immediately rush to sell 299 Ethereum right now, even if it ran through a Tornado.cash mixer, otherwise you would leave it alone if you believe that it isn't money or worth anything. > If something only has value because you think you can sell it to the next sucker for more, it is a ponzi scheme.…

What would you do if you had 193k Argentinian pesos? Probably convert them to USD, too. Is it because you believe it's not money?

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#205

Post by garren »

luckylion wrote: post #181
jeremyjh wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that's why they accept it at Amazon and Alibaba right?

Amazon doesn't accept cash. Is cash not money? They don't accept $foreignCurrency either, is that no longer money when you cross the border? Or do you mean "money is what you can use to pay your taxes"? That works to exclude crypto, at least for most of the world.

I imagine they’re more than happy to take your cash at their 4-star and pop-up physical locations.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#206

Post by sershe »

jasonhansel wrote: post #131
jeremyjh wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I invested in Monero years ago, when it was under a dollar. I concluded that since the only actual application of crypto up to that time was selling illegal goods and services on black markets like silk road, that it was really the only coin that made sense at the time (I'm sure others replicated it). AFAIK it is still considered untraceable, but the value peeked years ago around $400 IIRC. I made some de…

One might have some questions about the ethics of profiting from drug trafficking and money laundering.

Many people would think it's ethical, if anything morally positive. Do your part in demonstrating to the govt that if it plays stupid games (in this case, seeing if Prohibition would work better the 2nd time around), it would win stupid prizes!

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#207

Post by sershe »

carewell wrote: post #125
monero-xmr wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monero is digital cash. Cash is also used to buy drugs, but we do not ban it. I feel that financial privacy is a human right just like any other form of privacy. If you disagree then please post your last month’s bank statement in response to this comment.

I think parent commenter's argument is that it's hard to get excited about crypto just based on the fact that it allows some people buy drugs online. While millions of investors lose a ton of money to crypto scams.

If you generalize from drugs example, crypto (may) help you do things governments do not want you to do. Drugs are just one widespread restriction; and you may view Western governments as generally competent and benevolent (to be clear, I do not), and drug prohibition as necessary evil.

But it's hard to claim that most governments around the world and competent and benevolent, and easy to get excited about people being able to bypass things from capital controls and ruinous inflation, to outright censorship and confiscations. Not that I think crypto would actually succeed, but I hope it does.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#208

Post by tim333 »

>...crypto are every bit as dependent on a constant supply of greater fools.

But it isn't really. The crypto market goes in approx four year cycles and the number of greater fools goes up and down but things like bitcoin don't cease to exist, they just go up and down in price.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#209

Post by shagie »

sershe wrote: post #203
AstralStorm wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, Amazon does accept cash on delivery, so you are factually wrong. Doubly wrong since Amazon also accepts gift cards which can be bought with cash.

Where does Amazon accept cash on delivery? Also, by this logic Amazon accepts electronic cash that can be "bought" with crypto, right? Maybe dollars are just gift cards for bitcoin :P

https://www.amazon.eg/-/en/gp/help/customer/display.html?nod...

> Cash on Delivery is available as a payment method for fulfilled by Amazon and some seller fulfilled items. If you have Gift Card balance in your account, you can redeem it and pay the remaining amount using Cash on Delivery payment method.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#210

Post by yieldcrv »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #155
yieldcrv wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get the impression that you two are talking about that same thing, like, you didn't really give a rebuttal to what they said, how do you feel what you wrote is related? the best I can tell is that you are saying that centralized institutions having extremely large influence is necessary? in which case I would disagree

Having large, centralized institutions is necessary if you want your obscure, no-application-in-the-real-world funny coin to have value. They'll bring in money by suckering in people in believing it has value.

yes we get it, anybody that doesn't say something overwhelming negative about crypto gets one of your hyperbolic negative auto-replies just in case we missed it the first time

some of your points are clear without the pejoratives

to your actual point, I dont think there is anything inherently necessary for exchanges to make price discovery. people do not need to custody their assets there for more than a few minutes, and properly run exchanges (not overleveraged, solvent) do this just fine

OTC desks never custody and are okay examples of this

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