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The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

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Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#131

Post by jasonhansel »

jeremyjh wrote: post #104
Trasmatta wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto doesn't even excel at buying drugs online. The fact that it's a permanent ledger of transactions means the purchase could be trivially linked to you by law enforcement, unless you jumped through all the necessary hoops to also anonymize it. Which most people don't.

This is why I invested in Monero years ago, when it was under a dollar. I concluded that since the only actual application of crypto up to that time was selling illegal goods and services on black markets like silk road, that it was really the only coin that made sense at the time (I'm sure others replicated it). AFAIK it is still considered untraceable, but the value peeked years ago around $400 IIRC. I made some de…

One might have some questions about the ethics of profiting from drug trafficking and money laundering.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#132

Post by bb88 »

rosnd wrote: post #96
bb88 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe I did. And he doesn't. The article is pretty clear in it's thesis and argumentation. Saying "you don't understand something" is not an argument.

If you know what a "car" and a "bicycle" are, it's obvious that a bicycle is not a car. It would be silly for anyone to waste their time by explaining you the difference between the two. Same applies here. > Saying "you don't understand something" is not an argument It's a statement of fact. Edit: I can't reply below due to HN ratelimits, so I will do so here. >Saying "it's not" is not an argument, particularly when…

Hi, welcome to HN. BTW there are a lot of smart people here who have dug into the mechanics of crypto extensively.

I look forward to a good argument debunking the ponzi scheme thesis. Saying "it's not" is not an argument, particularly when a good argument has just been laid out in front of you.

Edited to add:

> It's pretty clear that you haven't actually read the article we're discussing, it does not at any point attempt to explain how cryptocurrencies would meet the definition of a Ponzi scheme.

Yeah that's not a good argument either. Since I did actually read it -- and it does.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#133

Post by [deleted] »

_uhtu wrote: post #29
seydor wrote: post #2

Quoted post unavailable.

This is one of those distraction comments that really adds nothing to the discussion. The article has real points about how crypto is deeply seeded with ponzi schemes all over and the entire currency in fact looks like a ponzi scheme, and the response is just "yeah but sometimes other things are kinda ponzi schemes". Yes, the stock/bond markets resemble ponzi schemes particularly for certain securities (cough Uber co…

[deleted]

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#135

Post by TrianguloY »

jeremyjh wrote: post #85
monero-xmr wrote: post #18

Cryptocurrency in its purest is money not issued or controlled by a government. Instead the supply inflation is controlled by transparent rules that are plain to see. “Protocol-based finance” vs. the existing government-based finance. Now there are all manner of divergences from the above paragraph. Coins that are totally controlled and issued by a small group or company. Black box rules rather than transparent. Ther…

It isn't money. Money can be easily exchanged for goods and services. It is a digital "asset" whose only meaningful application is speculative trading...of itself. If something only has value because you think you can sell it to the next sucker for more, it is a ponzi scheme.

> If something only has value because you think you can sell it to the next sucker for more, it is a ponzi scheme.

Careful with that sentence. It is applicable to paintings, stamps, and collecting in general. True that on those other cases you have a physical object, so it has a value (as opposed to nft) but usually it's far less. A Pokemon card costs almost nothing, but some people are willing to pay millions for it, so it "costs" millions.

Disclaimer: I still agree with your comment, I just think that the reason is more complex than that sentence.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#136

Post by everfree »

Trasmatta wrote: post #74
monero-xmr wrote: post #18

Cryptocurrency in its purest is money not issued or controlled by a government. Instead the supply inflation is controlled by transparent rules that are plain to see. “Protocol-based finance” vs. the existing government-based finance. Now there are all manner of divergences from the above paragraph. Coins that are totally controlled and issued by a small group or company. Black box rules rather than transparent. Ther…

Crypto doesn't even excel at buying drugs online. The fact that it's a permanent ledger of transactions means the purchase could be trivially linked to you by law enforcement, unless you jumped through all the necessary hoops to also anonymize it. Which most people don't.

> unless you jumped through all the necessary hoops to also anonymize it

There's a single hoop, and it's Monero.

It always confuses me when people say that crypto doesn't excel at buying drugs online. Out of all the things crypto does and does not do well, that one shouldn't be in dispute.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#138

Post by lamontcg »

glennvtx wrote: post #16

This is a terrible argument, and clickbait. Obvious enough to anyone who actually understands how bitcoin, or eth work, it does not fit the definition of a ponzi scheme. Most tech stocks fit the definition better. Just because a few centralized banks, (FTX, centralized crypto exchanges are banks) have failed, means nothing, since the original idea of cryptocurrency was to do away with centralized institutions like th…

> Most tech stocks fit the definition better.

The fact that the stock market has almost forgotten about dividends and bubble mechanics have taken over the tech sector isn't a real counter example. That is also bad.

Re: The entire crypto ecosystem is a ponzi

#140

Post by jeremyjh »

jasonhansel wrote: post #131
jeremyjh wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I invested in Monero years ago, when it was under a dollar. I concluded that since the only actual application of crypto up to that time was selling illegal goods and services on black markets like silk road, that it was really the only coin that made sense at the time (I'm sure others replicated it). AFAIK it is still considered untraceable, but the value peeked years ago around $400 IIRC. I made some de…

One might have some questions about the ethics of profiting from drug trafficking and money laundering.

Yeah, but I didn't. I profited from speculators who thought the same way but got in late.
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