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Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

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Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#201

Post by [deleted] »

izacus wrote: post #44
edent wrote: post #12

When I used to work for a large mobile network, we would spend ages testing the firmware of new devices. Even giants (at the time) like Nokia would release phones which couldn't dial the emergency services, or put out more than the legal limit of radiation, or were in other ways defective. We'd test, send a report back, wait a few weeks, get a new firmware, test again, repeat until everything worked. It took months.…

Well, the fact that big American mobile operators outright blocked or delayed updates for months did not go unnoticed. Testing is one thing, but in my first hand experience, many carriers used this "testing" as a convenient way to block phone updates without preloaded bloatware preferring their services or apps they were paid to put on the phones.

[deleted]

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#203

Post by [deleted] »

izacus wrote: post #44
edent wrote: post #12

When I used to work for a large mobile network, we would spend ages testing the firmware of new devices. Even giants (at the time) like Nokia would release phones which couldn't dial the emergency services, or put out more than the legal limit of radiation, or were in other ways defective. We'd test, send a report back, wait a few weeks, get a new firmware, test again, repeat until everything worked. It took months.…

Well, the fact that big American mobile operators outright blocked or delayed updates for months did not go unnoticed. Testing is one thing, but in my first hand experience, many carriers used this "testing" as a convenient way to block phone updates without preloaded bloatware preferring their services or apps they were paid to put on the phones.

[deleted]

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#204

Post by toast0 »

d12bb wrote: post #100
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a lot has changed. You call the regional center (the 911, or in our case, 112 responders), you negotiate a timeframe for your tests (so that there's enough operators there), you tell them the phone number (and other data) that will be used for testing (because the responders get the approximate location of the caller, and might still send someone to check after a call, even if the voice doesn't get through), and…

My experience sitting in on 112 dispatchers as part of my EMS training was different. Multiple times per shift a caller would just start the conversation with something like “This is no emergency, I'm an employee of Vodafone/T-Mobile/etc and have to test 112”. Only network operators calling this way though, no phone manufacturers.

Phone manufacturers probably do use simulators for most of their test calls, but also nearly every emergency dispatch center will have several cell towers in their service area and very few have phone manufacturers or phone test facilities.

I have a friend who used to work on cell towers and he'd need to do a test call after certain types of maintenance, and might visit a few towers a day to do that work. On the other hand, a particular phone model probably only needs one or two live test calls per firmware release, so there's probably a lot fewer of those calls overall, even if you're at a dispatch center that serves an area including people testing phones.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#205

Post by bagelfish »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #191
hilbert42 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The way I see it, this just moves the responsibility for safety to the manufacturers instead of the network." Perhaps so in the current circumstances, but ultimately it is the responsibly of the regulators to ensure the emergency numbers work. As witnessed here, a number of commentators seem to have forgotten that their smartphones are first and foremost are telephones and not playtoy computers. Unfortunately, the c…

> a number of commentators seem to have forgotten that their smartphones are first and foremost are telephones and not playtoy computers. Speaking for myself at least, I can tell you that it's not so much that I forgot as that I don't care and also you're wrong. Yes, it's good - perhaps even important - that the computer I carry in my pocket every day can also theoretically make phone calls, but it is most certainly…

Nope. It's called a smartphone, that should be your first clue that it's actually a phone. Also, not a very good computer.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#206

Post by lostlogin »

hilbert42 wrote: post #155
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably like the fourth or fifth time issues calling 911 has come up for Pixel phones too. Google simply isn't capable of producing life-critical software.

That's obviously true, after all Google's principal role in life is to make money though advertising not through saving lives. As I've said elsewhere, ultimately it's the responsibly of the regulator in each country to ensure that phones can connect to emergency numbers irrespective of what operating system or apps are installed on them—so that's where the problem ought to rest. That said, it's clear that that view d…

> As I've said elsewhere, ultimately it's the responsibly of the regulator in each country to ensure that phones can connect to emergency numbers irrespective of what operating system or apps are installed on them—so that's where the problem ought to rest.

If you are selling a phone, you have to comply with phone regulations and it’s your responsibility to make it do phone things.

Blaming the regulator for Google’s error is a neat idea though.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#207

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

bagelfish wrote: post #205
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a number of commentators seem to have forgotten that their smartphones are first and foremost are telephones and not playtoy computers. Speaking for myself at least, I can tell you that it's not so much that I forgot as that I don't care and also you're wrong. Yes, it's good - perhaps even important - that the computer I carry in my pocket every day can also theoretically make phone calls, but it is most certainly…

Nope. It's called a smartphone, that should be your first clue that it's actually a phone. Also, not a very good computer.

It's "smart" before "phone".

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#208

Post by jpollock »

alistairSH wrote: post #194
jpollock wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably related to [1]: "The FCC requires that providers of interconnected VoIP telephone services using the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) meet Enhanced 911 (E911) obligations. E911 systems automatically provide emergency service personnel with a 911 caller's call-back number and, in most cases, location information. To reduce possible risks to public safety, the FCC requires interconnected VoIP providers…

From a user perspective, I think I’d expect one of two things on a cell-phone… - Teams (or other 3rd party) isn’t allowed to make telephone calls. The phone provides this service. Teams can continue making voice “calls” to other Teams users, it just can’t initiate telephone calls via PSTN. - Teams (or other 3rd party) is allowed to take over calling duties from base software. But, only one call handling system can be…

The problem the FCC is solving is:

Person is in an emergency, they pick up the closest device and dial 911.

That needs to go through, complete with location information.

The specific triggers for the rule were old-landline handsets plugged into VoIP boxes routing through carriers that didn't have E911 connections. A child would pick up the phone, dial 911, the other end wouldn't have the address, and the child wouldn't know it either.

This rule would appear to include _anything_ capable of making a call, including things that don't look like phones (tablets).

That is mixed with the desire for carriers (and others) to intercept long-distance and other calls (no signal, cheaper rates, etc).

Microsoft used to sell something which would automatically intercept and redirect calls to other private numbers off of the cell network. This allowed higher quality codecs and lower costs.

If the handset maker only supports 911 when there is a cell signal, then this runs afoul of the FCC rule. The handset could be used in a location with wifi (but no cell signal), and be used to make calls. Someone picks up that handset, tries to dial 911 and is denied.

Microsoft, since they're a VoIP provider, needs to deal with E911. Google, needs to be fault-tolerant in the 911 dialing path and have good fallbacks.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#209

Post by MrStonedOne »

edent wrote: post #12

When I used to work for a large mobile network, we would spend ages testing the firmware of new devices. Even giants (at the time) like Nokia would release phones which couldn't dial the emergency services, or put out more than the legal limit of radiation, or were in other ways defective. We'd test, send a report back, wait a few weeks, get a new firmware, test again, repeat until everything worked. It took months.…

No post body was provided.

Re: Issue dialing 911 on Google Pixel 6 cell phones

#210

Post by murpydee »

I actually had another emergency-call-related bug a few days ago on my Pixel 5 after accidentally triggering the SOS call feature.

My device got stuck in a reboot loop -- it would reach the colored google "G" logo in the startup process, then reboot again. Every handful of cycles, it would reach the lock screen, attempt to start an emergency call, then reboot again.

I had to get my device to the debug fastboot screen just to kill the loop

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