Now how will we force people to do unpopular things without the ability to deprive them of their livelihood?
NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay
201–210 of 443 posts
Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
Please be careful about spreading misinformation. Vaccines were not widely available until spring of 2021, after the election. Only select few essential healthcare staff were eligible in 2020, and US deliveries began December 14th, 2020.[1] During the 2020 election season you describe it was actually the opponents of President Trump who were encouraging vaccine skepticism.[2] [1] (see HHS timeline) https://www.hhs.go…
Thank you for the correction. the resistance to COVID vaccination coincided with its availability. What was killing Trump supporters was his calling the virus media hype and hosting superspreader events, while he and his wife were among the first vaccinated before he left the White House.
Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stuff like this and allowing certain events while vilifying others as "superspreader events" killed a lot of people's belief in mitigation strategies IMO. A virus is a virus and doesn't recognize human needs or wants. Either there are no exceptions for anyone or we shouldn't bother.
The same happened in CA with some stores being open and others closed. Why was Home Depot open? It made no sense in terms of spreading the disease . It was just arbitrary BS. Closing the beaches was stupid too. If there ever was a safe place then it was the beach or state park wheee uou are in the open and the window blows.
Home Depot was open because people need to fix shit around their house if you want them to stay home. What's arbitrary about that?
I agree with you about the beaches. But in the early days, we didn't really know what worked and what didn't. People said 6 feet apart was safe enough indoors because "droplets containing the virus fall to the ground".
Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay
#204What was wild is the amount of hate and vitriol directed towards those who chose not get to vaccinated and lost or risked losing their jobs.
This forum was not exempt from that hate.
I hope this court opinion is enough to sway the opinion of those who held such extreme beliefs in this vaccine mandate that there are different opinions, and it doesnt have to be so extreme when deciding how to move forward with things that affect peoples livelihoods. Sometimes you do what is best for you and I do what is best for me is a perfectly logical and sane reasoning.
Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay
#205This is a confusing headline. The judgement here is in NY state court, and pertains to employees of and in the City of New York, which enacted a vaccine requirement for employees of the city and later private employers in the city. Months later, Eric Adams was elected mayor of NYC, and he issued an executive order exempting athletes, performers, and artists from the mandate. Petitioners sued, saying that the mandate…
Eric Adams' "performers and sports players" exemption was specifically to allow Broadway to re-open and to allow Kyrie Irving to play in Brooklyn. The whole thing was a farce anyway so it doesn't matter.
It wasn't Kyrie, it was the Yankees. The opening came just before the start of the MLB season but well into the NBA season.
Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay
#206Something I've been wondering in recent cases where courts are overturning recent government action, whether unconstitutional bills passed into law, or unconstitutional executive actions that overstep authority, is where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place? The state of New York famously responded to the outcome of NYSRPA v. Bruen, which overturned the defacto ban on concealed carry, by decl…
>where's the penalty for committing those actions in the first place You've hit the core problem of society/government that countless generations have tried to obfuscate via an academic body that implies that social interactions can be studied/understood like natural sciences. At the core, all social structure is built on the threat of violence - Commit non-violent white collar crime? Show up to court, because if you…
> At the core, all social structure is built on the threat of violence - Commit non-violent white collar crime? Show up to court, because if you don't you'll get arrested. Run from the police when they try to arrest you? You'll get taken by force.
Is this true for all social structures, or just our current one?
The social structures that emerge are time dependent. The people living in the middle ages had no way of predicting the social structures of today. Since we can't predict the social structures that the future will bring, how could we know for sure that there isn't X social structure that doesn't need violence to propagate itself?
We can talk about the likelihood of X social structure emerging, sure. But to make the universal claim about all social structures, viz "human nature", is flawed reasoning
Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Where does it end? It ends with your survival. Vaccination isn't surgery, it's an extremely minor medical procedure that reduces or eliminates the risk of contracting a disease. During a deadly global pandemic, refusing vaccination is nothing short of suicidal . 97M Americans were infected and more than a million died. There were over 630M cases globally, and over 6.5M died due to COVID. The People have the stronge…
>It ends with your survival. Vaccination isn't surgery, it's an extremely minor medical procedure that reduces or eliminates the risk of contracting a disease. During a deadly global pandemic, refusing vaccination is nothing short of suicidal. 97M Americans were infected and more than a million died. There were over 630M cases globally, and over 6.5M died due to COVID. Way to dodge the question. Also, I think you're…
> it sets a precedent for government to mandate medical procedures
Does it, though? Just because the government can mandate employees be vaccinated as a condition of continued employment, doesn't mean they can mandate employees be sterilized (for instance). No reasonable person would say the second follows from the first. Law isn't code.
Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
How are you going to handle it when the Supreme Court reverses itself on decisions decades later? Or even just a few years later when a new Justice is added? Does all the money from damages get returned, with interest and accounting for inflation? Law is never settled and courts disagree and reverse frequently... So I don't think you've really thought this through... :) Including who is going to pay for all those dam…
Three strikes. Politician voted three times for laws that later were deemed unconstitutional by the SC, so the politician can only be a politian again after 30 years and some mandatory training and test. What is not fair about this?
What's the punishment for that SC when a later SC overrules it, three new justices later?
And while we're at it, are we also creating a three strikes law for lower courts that get overruled by the SC three times?
And what about the courts below them? What if they get overruled by a higher court... which in turn gets overruled by the SC?
I can't wait to keep track of all this ;)
Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not at all. We require school children to undergo medical procedures before they may participate in city-funded education. The tone of alarm is unwarranted. This is not a slippery slope situation.
> This is not a slippery slope situation. I think it is. Governments aren't that trustworthy if you ask me.
The paranoia is a bit too late. Emergency powers were established by Congress a century ago, and at least 60 national emergencies have been declared since. In New York State, a state of emergency declaration permits the governor to direct local officials and state agencies, and to suspend state and local law or regulation to facilitate disaster response efforts. If there ever was a slippery slope, it has long since been descended many times.
Re: NY Supreme Court reinstates NYC's fired unvaccinated employees, orders backpay
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is bad faith interpretation of my comment. We all know what the Civil Rights Act is. My question is what rule exactly is NYC breaking?
Did you read the ruling? It’s not actually very long (terrible pdf though): “Finally, states of emergency are meant to be _temporary_. The question presented is whether the Health Commissioner has the authority to enact a permanent condition of employment during a state of emergency. This Court finds that the Commissioner does not have that authority and has acted beyond the scope of his authority under the Public He…
>Did you read the ruling?
That's a lot of ask of an internet commenter.
In all seriousness, I did see that part while skimming through it, but I don't find it very convincing in regards to public employees. The order came from the Mayor, not the health commissioner. Requiring city employees be vaccinated is an administrative decision. It's within the best interests of the city that city employees not get sick, that the city's health insurance premiums don't go up, etc.