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A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

cleveland.com

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Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#201

Post by rwmj »

chasil wrote: post #6
antx wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no wiggle room. You need to be 1000% certain of identification, if you decide to eat a mushroom. That's how I've been doing it for the last decade. I forage a lot of mushrooms, but don't consume anything I'm not sure of. Also, there are "beginner" mushrooms, that don't have any dangerous look-alikes, such as the famous "chicken of the woods" (laetiporus sulphureus). You can't really go wrong with mushroom lik…

My farmers' market has a mushroom guy that brings in things that I've never seen before. Some of them get expensive and a few I've found rather unpleasant. There is absolutely no way that I could find these things myself, so I would suggest a dealer like this if you are in an area large enough to support one. This is the dealer at my market: https://www.wildgrowthgourmetmushrooms.com/

I've grown mushrooms (from known spores) before and it's interesting. The problem with it is that most mushrooms only grow on very specific materials, eg. only on oak wood or straw.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#203

Post by yieldcrv »

cyphar wrote: post #79
chernofool wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most plant ID apps have a disclaimer saying that you should never eat anything that you use the app to identify. Seek reminds you every time you open the camera. They're mostly intended as entertainment, but some of them use the data to analyze where species are growing in realtime.

Even if that does waive their legal liability (which I'm not sure it does), there is a moral obligation to try to not endanger the many people that the app developers know are going to disregard that warning. It would be intellectually dishonest for the developers of such apps to pretend that everyone who uses their app actually obeys that warning (there are plenty of YouTube videos instructing people to forage for t…

The apps aren't for eating.

I think you're missing how many steps are necessary.

Those apps for identifying your local poplars and evergreens.

This person pointed it at a mushroom, picked the mushroom, used it as a topping and digested it.

I would be for an additional warning label when mushrooms are identified. But we need more people on the same page about the apps themselves, if you haven't used them I think you might be out of the loop.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#204

Post by dmix »

yieldcrv wrote: post #199
dmitrybrant wrote: post #69

I've been foraging mushrooms for 30+ years, and I triple-check every single specimen before cooking it. The idea of a novice forager using an app to identify mushrooms is... unconscionable! Like... breathtakingly stupid. I've commented on this before, but it continues to baffle me how poorly-educated our public is about wild plants, berries, and mushrooms. And stories like this just perpetuate the fear (and stigma?)…

> The idea of a novice forager using an app to identify mushrooms is... unconscionable! Like... breathtakingly stupid. Out of curiosity, have you used any of the apps? They're really good at flora, and include identification of fungi because they are outdoors and attached to soil and flora. They greatly amplify the most passive and casual interest to something far beyond the tools employed professionals would have. E…

So to be clear the app didnt say it was edible or makes any recommendations about eating them, it only said it potentially looks like its from a family of mushrooms which the author found out included edible mushrooms.

Technically the person themselves made the leap to calling it edible.

Although it wouldn’t hurt for the flora identification app to have warnings about not eating things unless you’re very certain and have expertise on the subject. Or make it clear it’s a well informed guess not a perfect identification.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#205

Post by herbst »

changoplatanero wrote: post #2

Mushroom foraging sounds really fun but I’m too scared to eat anything that I find.

In Switzerland 'community halls' near forests usually have mushroom checking days where you can bring them in for free. Not sure how this works in other countries

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#206

Post by yieldcrv »

dmix wrote: post #204
yieldcrv wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea of a novice forager using an app to identify mushrooms is... unconscionable! Like... breathtakingly stupid. Out of curiosity, have you used any of the apps? They're really good at flora, and include identification of fungi because they are outdoors and attached to soil and flora. They greatly amplify the most passive and casual interest to something far beyond the tools employed professionals would have. E…

So to be clear the app didnt say it was edible or makes any recommendations about eating them, it only said it potentially looks like its from a family of mushrooms which the author found out included edible mushrooms. Technically the person themselves made the leap to calling it edible. Although it wouldn’t hurt for the flora identification app to have warnings about not eating things unless you’re very certain and…

That's right. Its more than "technically", the article just glosses over it.

The person went out of their way, but I could see many people going down the same path.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#207

Post by rnhmjoj »

pazimzadeh wrote: post #23

That seems like one of the problems that can be solved with technology, i.e. by using - machine learning could be used to visually identify fungi - Portable DNA sequencing devices i.e. nanopore? https://nanoporetech.com/products/smidgion

No respectable micologist would attempt identifying a mushroom based on a picture alone. It's just not possible: there isn't a 1:1 correspondence between species and (macroscopic) appearance, not for every species or even the majority of them.

To be relatively sure on an identification you can combine a good knowledge of the location where the mushroom was found, smell and even taste, but a microscopy (observation of the size, shape and color of the spores, characteristics of the sporophore, hymenium, etc.) is necessary to be certain. In fact, the taxonomy was entirely based on it before genetic analysis started to take over.

You could probably do machine learning and reach a good accuracy based on microscopy, but certainly not with a blurry picture taken from a smartphone.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#208

Post by _ph_ »

Aloha wrote: post #130
nkurz wrote: post #44

Since no one has done it yet, I'll ask the obvious question about the FDA: how many people die or need a liver transplant each year because the FDA is being unreasonable here? Here's some quotes from the article: Approximately 40% of people who ingest the deadly Amanita mushrooms die or require a liver transplant, according to Dr. Pierre Gholam, the liver specialist at University Hospitals who treated Hickman. ... Th…

"Gholam says that the process of FDA approval for Silibinin is slow, primarily because it only works for amatoxin poisoning, from the Amanita mushroom species. Those poisonings are rare – so gathering enough data to satisfy the safety and efficacy requirements of the FDA takes time. And there is little financial incentive by the company that owns the drug to invest in its research and development." Incidentally, thes…

I think Thalidomide is exactly the wrong reason to not approve drugs like Silibinin and what is wrong with the drug system. Yes, it was a huge scandal. But we are not talking about a drung for general usage, especially not for taking as a healthy person. There should be entirely different approval paths for drugs which are to be taken in a live-and-death situation. Which can be clearly diagnosed. Especially, if it also has been approved and used for a long time in the EU.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#209

Post by trhr »

cyphar wrote: post #79
chernofool wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most plant ID apps have a disclaimer saying that you should never eat anything that you use the app to identify. Seek reminds you every time you open the camera. They're mostly intended as entertainment, but some of them use the data to analyze where species are growing in realtime.

Even if that does waive their legal liability (which I'm not sure it does), there is a moral obligation to try to not endanger the many people that the app developers know are going to disregard that warning. It would be intellectually dishonest for the developers of such apps to pretend that everyone who uses their app actually obeys that warning (there are plenty of YouTube videos instructing people to forage for t…

We need to stop pretending that developers are liable for the idiocy of users.

There was a time when you could publish a book on how to make a pipe bomb and nothing would happen to you. Now the wrath of the government descends on you as if you broke the law by having knowledge and telling it to someone.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#210

Post by Matticus_Rex »

WalterBright wrote: post #93
dmitrybrant wrote: post #69

I've been foraging mushrooms for 30+ years, and I triple-check every single specimen before cooking it. The idea of a novice forager using an app to identify mushrooms is... unconscionable! Like... breathtakingly stupid. I've commented on this before, but it continues to baffle me how poorly-educated our public is about wild plants, berries, and mushrooms. And stories like this just perpetuate the fear (and stigma?)…

If I was an expert, I still wouldn't eat them after triple-checking them. I don't think they taste so good that they're worth any risk. It's not like they're chocolate.

There's no risk to eating many carefully foraged mushrooms. Many of them have no toxic lookalikes, or are so easily distinguished that the risk is essentially zero.
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