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The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

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Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#201

Post by whimsicalism »

philliphaydon wrote: post #176
whimsicalism wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not using any standard lines, I am an internet commentator from the US. If China were lying about it's numbers, it would be obvious from antibody tests of people traveling from China. It is clear that they are not undercounting deaths by millions.

if a person has a heart problem. In the US it would be something like. “Died of heart problem bought on by covid”. Or “died of covid due to complications caused by heart problem”. So covid is a causing or contributing factor. In China. It’s recorded as “heart problem”. We know this because they do it with seasonal flu. America gets like 20m cases of seasonal flu a year. And like 30k deaths. China gets like 50 cases.…

Even if all of that is true, China has had so few covid cases that even that wouldn't explain the difference.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#202

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

ravel-bar-foo wrote: post #193
catchclose8919 wrote: post #172

...the Chinese seem to ignore the global play here: as Covid is endemic in the rest of the world and variants will keep emerging just like they do for common cold (it's basically just a new addition to the bundle of viruses that give the "common cold", but unfortunately with higher mortality since humans haven't been exposed to it), they'll have to isolate themselves from the rest of the world FOREVER! How about all…

There are several possible Chinese goals here, none of which require permanently closed borders: 1. Zero Covid until mRNA vaccines become available to them. Given the infectivity of Omicron and the technical hurdles to mRNA vaccines, they seem unlikely to succeed here. 2. Contain the burn to one city/region at a time so that resources from across the country can be moved in, reducing deaths. Again, seems unlikely to…

7. Try to "flatten the curve" (keep the infection rate under where it overwhelms hospitals).

Omicron was spreading like wildfire even in places that had reasonably strict measures in place and mRNA vaccines + many prior infections providing some level of protection.

There's a good chance that China can't keep it from growing exponentially and very quickly with anything short of a lockdown, and expects hospitals to collapse because many elderly who had zero prior exposure will get it almost at the same time.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#203

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

cryptonector wrote: post #87
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But on the other hand, my friends who are quarantined and didn't get it are just bored to death, drinking and gaming and working from home, just treading water until this "ends." From what I've been hearing, the big problem for lots of people stuck under lockdown is simply getting groceries/food deliveries at all. The government isn't letting delivery people work, and the military response to distributing food isn'…

I wonder if there were many preppers in Shanghai. I wonder if how many new preppers there are now throughout China. Of all the reasons people prep, "long lockdowns" was never one until very recent times.

I'm still shaking my head over anyone who didn't stock up (assuming they could easily afford it) once it became clear that getting infected = 2 weeks quarantine (which was the case in many Western countries too). Even a year into the pandemic people kept being surprised about the obvious.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#204

Post by spirodonfl »

munk-a wrote: post #116
version_five wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not global lockdowns would have worked, I prefer a world in which you can get covid to one in which the government can confine you to your house. You're welcome to move to China if you prefer the latter approach - or just confine yourself to your house yourself...

In fact I have mostly confined myself to my house. I can work remotely and we have an income sufficient to rely on instacart and delivery for food. We go out for walks in the neighborhood but we avoid going in stores or restaurants except on rare occasions. We've taken one vacation (during the lull before omicron became a thing) and we'll try and take another vacation this summer but, otherwise, we're trying our best…

This is an incredibly privileged and self indulgent take. As a fellow BC resident, I am actually surprised how many people feel like their view on life is the only one and are happy to steamroll over the lives of others globally, consequences be damned.

This line of thinking is short sighted. It stops right at "See, this works for me, everyone should do this" and never carries the thought through to its conclusion. Mainly, how will these enforced measures affect everyone involved (and you) now, and in the long term, contexts being taken into account.

Frankly, as Canadians, we are thought of as respectful and considerate of other people. This thinking is the opposite and it's abhorrent.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#205

Post by memish »

open-source-ux wrote: post #7

According to this BBC video report, more Shanghai residents are venting their anger and frustration by posting videos on social media. Such videos are normally censored by China's 'Great Firewall'. The BBC website states: "...the sheer volume of the clips has made it difficult for censors to keep up. Many are also being passed around in private group chats, which has made them harder to catch." Shanghai lockdown: How…

I worry the US internet is trending in that direction. It already sounds too familiar.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#206

Post by rdtwo »

bllguo wrote: post #96
qwytw wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it more amusing that someone can think that the could CCP be seriously concerned about the long term wellbeing of the Chinese people. Surely if it disportionately affects older individuals, especially in the light of the demographic crisis China will being facing in not to distant future (and with no social security or widespread private pension schemes and limited immigration it would be reasonable that it wi…

So if the CCP truly cared about the people they'd cull the elderly. This is the quality of discussion on China these days on HN. The idea that "hey, obviously they wouldn't consider that, maybe they're not the comic-book villains I've been led to believe!" doesn't even cross your mind.

I mean Sweden, and New York did it idk why we would put it past the Chinese. Might be cultural though

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#207

Post by rdtwo »

bigodbiel wrote: post #79
sva_ wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it fairly amusing that people who believe in the "lableak-hypothesis" seem to usually also be in the camp of people who don't think the virus is too bad. If the virus really came from the lab, then presumably the Chinese know more about its (long term) effects than the rest of us. And looking at the fact, that they have this zero COVID policy, that should absolutely terrify anyone believing in the aforemention…

If you abide by the lableak theory, then part of its mythos was that he NIH funded the research, making them equally knowledgeable on it. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/10/nih-admits-funding-r...

The nih thing isn’t a theory. The lab leak Part is speculation

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#208

Post by lampshades »

jsiaajdsdaa wrote: post #153
cryptonector wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there were many preppers in Shanghai. I wonder if how many new preppers there are now throughout China. Of all the reasons people prep, "long lockdowns" was never one until very recent times.

They definitely do not prep in that city. Maybe you can survive a year on a sack of rice and potatoes, if your utilities aren't cut off. But without guns and land, prepping becomes "hiding until the situation hopefully goes away"

That'd have to be a big fucking sack of rice and potatoes.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#209

Post by nradov »

jaqalopes wrote: post #8

I lived in Shanghai for 5 years and have many friends and business connects there. I would never, ever want to be seen as carrying water for the CCP--the day they abolished term limits for Xi was the day I started planning my exit. I've been following this situation for almost a month now and in one sense it's every bit as bad as it looks. An inadequate and inhumane policy being enforced by an out of touch, or perhap…

The lesson I take away from this is that governments with the power to enforce lockdowns are far more dangerous than any virus.

Re: The silenced deaths of the Shanghai 2022 lockdown

#210

Post by BobbyJo »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #75
BobbyJo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the term 'Great Firewall' has become a colloquialism for the compute resources the CCP uses to further their agenda. They've used the same set of network/compute resources to commit cyber attacks, so thinking of the Great Firewall as only the filter for the outside world gives a false impression of how their systems work and are deployed.

But this is not a technological thing...and it isn't CPC driven (rather, private companies are supposed to self censor inside China, via manual inspection or increasingly via AI). The Great Firewall specifically is package filtering technology installed at ISPs with out-of-china links. China can't use it against internal traffic because it would basically shut the internet down completely in the entire country (given…

> it isn't CPC driven (rather, private companies are supposed to self censor

The CCP dictates what gets filtered, so not sure what you mean by them not 'driving' it. Are you saying that because they don't own the hardware? If so, that's rather pedantic, given that the party has effectively unlimited power to dictate how any given resource is used, and is doing so in this case.

> The Great Firewall specifically is package filtering technology installed at ISPs with out-of-china links.

If this were an academic conversation about what the word means, or where it originated, then yeah, I get you. However, I was pointing out what the term has come to mean colloquially and why. If you generally have a gripe about the confusing overload of the term, then your argument should focus on potential confusion.

> China can't use it against internal traffic because it would basically shut the internet down completely in the entire country (given its slow performance).

Edit: I misread your last paragraph.

There s ample evidence the CCP deploys the same type of filtering internally, I don't think it being potentially different hardware or methods is anything more than technical detail is the outcome if the same.

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