Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

bleepingcomputer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 249 posts

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#201

Post by CamperBob2 »

AlexandrB wrote: post #119
waihtis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality shatters your point really quickly, it's even mentioned in the lecture (suggesting you didn't watch it): Russians have literally had 8 years of democracy in the past 600+ years, otherwise it's always been an autocracy.

> Russians have literally had 8 years of democracy in the past 600+ years, otherwise it's always been an autocracy. To pin this on the Russian people is ludicrous. I think Russia has been consistently dealt a bad hand when it comes to leadership. And interference from the "west" has also been a negative influence in modern times. Consider Lenin[1] and western economic advice that led to the looting of the Russian sta…

I think Russia has been consistently dealt a bad hand when it comes to leadership.

When you're dealt a bad hand, it's your responsibility as citizens to do something about it.

That's the part that Russians don't seem to get. As the video describes, it's as if they they enjoy suffering and oppression. Nothing wrong with that, I guess... whatever floats your boat, no kink-shaming here. But don't expect it to catch on elsewhere.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#202

Post by LAC-Tech »

waihtis wrote: post #198
LAC-Tech wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really an argument. All you've done is label the Yeltsin administration a democracy, and the Putin administration an autocracy, and then told me a democracy is more democratic than an autocracy. What I specifically want to hear from you - presumably someone knowledgeable about the political history of the Russian Federation - is how the Yeltsin administration was more democratic. Because my understanding i…

”The 1993 constitution declares Russia a democratic, federative, law-based state with a republican form of government. State power is divided among the legislative, executive, and judicial branches. ” Yes, their attempt was a miserable failure in many ways, but it was a democracy, albeit a very shallow one.

And in what ways is the current administration not a very shallow democracy?

I feel like ever since the Ukraine invasion Russia has been down-graded from "flawed democracy' to 'autocratic dictatorship' - I mean it's not Switzerland but it's hardly North Korea..

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#203

Post by tialaramex »

JanisErdmanis wrote: post #170
sobriquet9 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This requires a precise internal clock that is always correct. If that clock drifts or is reset because the battery dies, GPS receiver would stop working.

Wouldn't it suffice to have a rather imprecise time + counter in the GPS message? So if multiple messages arrives the one with the largest count is kept. I wonder if the problem lies in a different aspect of needing to authenticate messages quickly enough and thus requiring more processing power.

This is not a packet switched network and you are not receiving nice neat little messages to decode, you've got a radio receiver, the real transmissions are from a satellite in space, while unfortunately your adversary is transmitting from radio towers or even a portable transmitter, much closer and able to be supplied with energy easily so more powerful, but on the same frequencies.

Also, be careful with assuming that late = imposter. The whole point of GPS is that signals take time to travel over distance, so, maybe the signal is late because you're further from that satellite instead, which is what you were trying to measure when you got distracted trying to prevent spoofing.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#204

Post by Rebelgecko »

rich_sasha wrote: post #2

The clear suggestion is that it is Russia doing it. Other than as an f-u, I don’t understand why they would though. If I have an effective weapon (GPS spoofer), surely I don’t want to alert the enemy to it, lest they develop defences. So eg say NATO were overreliant on GPS, incidents of spoofing like this will cause them to rethink and reduce that reliance, or harden the system.

It's already public knowledge that Russia does funny stuff with GPS (you can see this yourself - try getting a fix when you're standing in Red Square)

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#205

Post by Rebelgecko »

maratc wrote: post #133

> the software to simulate realistic GPS satellite radio signals is generally widely available. This is interesting. Someone knows if I can spoof GPS signals using my Raspberry Pi -- plus maybe some SDR hat or add-on?

You can get a GPS signal generator for a few thousand dollars and hook it up, although I don't know of any that would work with a Pi

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#206

Post by Rebelgecko »

kroeckx wrote: post #42
bagels wrote: post #16

United States has the capability to degrade or deny GPS based on location. Russia has also demonstrated the ability to spoof GPS signals. Either is a likely cause here.

In 2000, Bill Clinton has banned the use of Selective Availability. Newer satellites, decided in 2007, first launched in 2018 don't even have the capability anymore.

This is different than selective availability, which kept the signals on at regular power but rounded off numbers/degraded them them. Starting with GPS 3 (or maybe even Block II-F?), the satellites have multiple antennas so they can just turn themselves on and off for specific regions. No cap. They can also adjust the SNR more granularly for the individual signals.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#207

Post by tguvot »

saiya-jin wrote: post #157
chrisco255 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin's approval rating in Russia has only increased since the war in Ukraine started. Also, Russian weaponry has only improved since the fall of the USSR. I'm not sure why you're arguing that Russia cannot do what they are currently doing.

Russian weaponry didn't improve, in opposite. Don't look at the paper numbers, they have maybe 10% of the machinery fully operational, spread over very wide territory. The rest is there for spare parts at best. You mean the russian tank (armata) that they found out they can't build en masse? Or those 40 or 50 years old tanks actually used in Ukraine, which were new during USSR but not so much anymore, and javelins ma…

>I saw some pictures how the pockets of active armor were empty or stuffed with egg paper wrappings

Actually those are spacers for ERA plates. They just forgot to put it between spacers.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#208

Post by noipv4 »

maratc wrote: post #133

> the software to simulate realistic GPS satellite radio signals is generally widely available. This is interesting. Someone knows if I can spoof GPS signals using my Raspberry Pi -- plus maybe some SDR hat or add-on?

Take a look at Adalm Pluto or USRP B200/ B210 boards to generate GPS signal. If you want to use Pluto, you need a better clock crystal (lower ppm) for GPS usage. You will need current almanac data and the spoofing generator software on rPI. Also, if you want more fun and learn about GPS signals, you can use gnss-sdr open source software GPS/GNSS signal decoder.

Re: Finnish govt agency warns of unusual aircraft GPS interference

#210

Post by octoberfranklin »

T-A wrote: post #68
octoberfranklin wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a major departure from previous GPS designs, the M-code is intended to be broadcast from a high-gain directional antenna, in addition to a wide angle (full Earth) antenna. The directional antenna's signal, termed a spot beam, is intended to be aimed at a specific region (i.e., several hundred kilometers in diameter) and increase the local signal strength by 20 dB (10× voltage field strength, 100× power). A side ef…

That's an ability to improve service for users of M-code receivers, which AFAIK are only available to the military (and it's new technology, so I'd expect it to be unsupported even by most military receivers currently in use).

The M-code is transmitted in the same L1 and L2 frequencies already in use

Nothing says that they have to transmit M-codes from the spot beam antenna.

In fact, since the M-codes are hardly used, it's pretty certain they're using that antenna for something else. How very convenient that those antennae are designed to transmit on the same frequency as the "ordinary" antenna.

Post reply on HN