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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#201

Post by dotnet00 »

belval wrote: post #7

To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I guess that I should explicitly add that I am not from India. Cross-cultural communications can be a bit difficult at times and I'd rather not make blu…

I have never personally experienced it and never really learned anything about castes the way others seem to treat them (ie I couldn't tell a person's caste from their last name). I have noticed that some people's first question after hearing a name is to confirm which caste that would refer to, but I've never really seen it as all too meaningful beyond an odd curiosity.

As such I don't really feel particularly threatened by being asked where I'm from. I do have a bias towards groups with more diverse teams (ie not just Indians) but that's more about enjoying the cultural exchange that comes with that instead of the homogeneity and conflict that can come from staying within one's own cultural influence.

If anything I've seen much more nepotism than casteism.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#202

Post by thowaway_2mar »

vmception wrote: post #57

One day it occurred to me that I can tell if someone is from India, but that I'd never considered to notice more nuances than that, for such a big country with so many groups of people. I have just begun to notice, but I have no idea about the identity politics. I recall in college that some of my friends from India would fawn over certain last names, and I felt it was something to do with the caste system, but I had…

^ How many people from that group would be in Silicon Valley

Less that 10%

Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24552047 - Sept 2020 (613 comments)

^ Seems like there is a potential for solidarity amongst more vocal groups pushing for representation.

Good luck, but I don't believe that's happening anytime soon considering that SV is upper-caste dominated also no politician really gives a damn unless your group has the population significant enough to win the elections.

Also, do you know prop-16 was rejected by Cali, the most progressive state in the US. see https://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/prop-16-failed-in-californ...

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#203

Post by random314 »

vmception wrote: post #57

One day it occurred to me that I can tell if someone is from India, but that I'd never considered to notice more nuances than that, for such a big country with so many groups of people. I have just begun to notice, but I have no idea about the identity politics. I recall in college that some of my friends from India would fawn over certain last names, and I felt it was something to do with the caste system, but I had…

In India dalits are about 20%. In Silicon valley, I would be surprised if they are more than 2%.

India is like 3 different countries when sliced by caste. The highest castes are about as privileged as the typical Chinese. The middle are at sub saharan Africa levels. The bottom 25% constitute probably the most deprived population in the world. Better off than the Rohingyas but not by too much.

"Jay Bhim" is a great movie based on a real incident. Bhim refers to the social reformer profiled in the article Bhimrao Ambedkar.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15097216/

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#204

Post by civilized »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #80
fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #47

In a well known big tech company (FAANG), I have seen many many examples of a whole layer of management from the same caste. So like under one director, every senior manager will have been from the same part of India. Sometimes this will extend to another layer of managers below them. Behind the scenes, there is a strong communication network that is often not caught or shown in org charts. This will include high ran…

I saw the same at a prominent financial services firm. 50 - 60 Indians in the same dept from the same region. A big number. I even asked a senior manager if I needed to be Indian to excel at the company. He said the very fact I asked that question is a problem, whether or not it is true.

Was the problem your asking the question, or was the problem the apparent pattern of rampant casteism?

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#205

Post by mama123 »

yrgulation wrote: post #26

The caste system is so deeply entrenched in the culture of those abused by it that even centuries after leaving india they cant leave it behind. Romania has a considerable group of such people. The Gipsy (also know as Romani) are an Indian people that are thought to have been part of a caste and fled India hundreds of years ago. To this day they cant lift themselves up, and frankly the government of Romania is not do…

There isn't any proof that the Romani left because of their caste.

There is a strong evidence that they might have been driven away by the Islamic invasions, because their timelines coincide.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#206

Post by random314 »

thowaway_2mar wrote: post #202
vmception wrote: post #57

One day it occurred to me that I can tell if someone is from India, but that I'd never considered to notice more nuances than that, for such a big country with so many groups of people. I have just begun to notice, but I have no idea about the identity politics. I recall in college that some of my friends from India would fawn over certain last names, and I felt it was something to do with the caste system, but I had…

^ How many people from that group would be in Silicon Valley Less that 10% Over 90% of Indian techies in the US are upper-caste Indians - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24552047 - Sept 2020 (613 comments) ^ Seems like there is a potential for solidarity amongst more vocal groups pushing for representation. Good luck, but I don't believe that's happening anytime soon considering that SV is upper-caste dominated…

The 10% can be split into 2 more layers - Dalits (untouchables) and Shudras. Dalits are significantly worse off than Shudras.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#207

Post by lotsofpulp »

vmception wrote: post #184
lotsofpulp wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price premium is not because Stanford directly provides something unique. The price premium is because the buyer is predicting the probability of their goals being accomplished to be sufficiently higher due to the Stanford brand name such that it is worth paying a premium for. Maybe the goal is to increase the probability that an employee is smarter, harder working, more motivated, or just better connected. Perha…

the idea is better connected, which factors more for potential investors evaluating the board and c-suite than employees. but it shouldn't weight that heavily there either.

Theoretically, if the premium was not worth it, then companies that were not willing to pay the premium should be able to pump out products/services at a more competitive price than companies that are wasting their money on brand name schools.

But it has been happening for many decades or longer, so I assume there is some utility being gained that is worth it, even if it is just from nepotism.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#208

Post by colechristensen »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #80
fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #47

In a well known big tech company (FAANG), I have seen many many examples of a whole layer of management from the same caste. So like under one director, every senior manager will have been from the same part of India. Sometimes this will extend to another layer of managers below them. Behind the scenes, there is a strong communication network that is often not caught or shown in org charts. This will include high ran…

I saw the same at a prominent financial services firm. 50 - 60 Indians in the same dept from the same region. A big number. I even asked a senior manager if I needed to be Indian to excel at the company. He said the very fact I asked that question is a problem, whether or not it is true.

I heard a very similar story about a department in a higher education institution.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#210

Post by screye »

withinboredom wrote: post #195
screye wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caste among Sikh[1] and Muslim[2] communities is as deeply rooted as caste in Hindus. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BSN-3nmMyM [2] https://theprint.in/opinion/indias-muslim-community-under-a-...

Did you just man-splain someone’s own religion/community?

I merely pointed out that their claim did not pass academic or statistic rigor. India is a big country, and we all live in our silos. I merely refuted the claim. I don't believe I did so condescending-ly or as a means of putting them down.

It is one thing to say that "X is not technically a part of our religion" or "I have never witnessed X" and another other to dismiss it as a phenomenon entirely.

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