Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 1001 posts

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#201

Post by r721 »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #168
mysecretaccount wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will the people downvoting this comment mind telling me what is wrong with it? I'm not a Russian apologist, just a fan of history, and am trying to understand why so many people reject this narrative. edit: Now I am downvoted too just for asking..? This just makes me think that there is not a solid answer?

I can only vouch so much, I agree with you. The post may be insightful or irrelevant, but I see no reason it should be flagged. I suppose some view message boards as an information battleground and find it's their duty to maintain a single narrative.

I flagged it because that person copy-pasted several their comments from another thread into one rambling comment here.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#204

Post by Gustomaximus »

voisin wrote: post #61

Has China weighed in at all?

China has said Russia should respect Ukrainian territory publicly.

Personally I guess they will support Russia via trade and not partake in sanctions.

Form this I feel the west has to put tariffs or reduce trade on nations that trade with Russia for maximum effect. It could also be a useful way to rebalance the trade with China which is the aim of some western governments.

China is also in a bind as if they recognise the break away regions this gives political credit to Taiwan's independence. From this I suspect they will continue to publicly offer Ukrainian support, and appear as the peace makers, but do little in actual effect.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#205

Post by BeefWellington »

k41da wrote: post #131
unityByFreedom wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't sending troops to Ukraine so that's irrelevant.

Give it 72 hours. The news cycle is leading the announcements tomorrow and the announcements that will inevitably come next week. If the news is already talking WW3 (and yes, they are) then it won't be long before the UN deploys it's own "peacekeeping forces" and the world goes hot.

I think right now in the west in general the appetite for getting hands-on in Ukraine is just not there.

As sad as it may be for Ukraine, they're going to have to do what they can to defend themselves with aid and supplies.

The one thought I have around this is Canada. Spitballing: There's a huge Ukrainian population there and the deputy PM has personal ties to the region. It's entirely possible, especially given recent events, that Trudeau decides it's politically expedient to get involved directly in some meaningful way. They'd also have to try to convince the other parties helping them maintain government. Even if that happens though, I suspect that won't make a difference to the outcome and the rest of NATO would look at it as a Canadian solo operation. I'd give this about a 0.001% chance of happening, maybe less. Any politician who got boots on the ground (barring some unforeseen change in circumstance) would probably be skewered public opinion-wise and be essentially kissing re-election goodbye.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#206

Post by skissane »

MattGaiser wrote: post #63
mysecretaccount wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will the people downvoting this comment mind telling me what is wrong with it? I'm not a Russian apologist, just a fan of history, and am trying to understand why so many people reject this narrative. edit: Now I am downvoted too just for asking..? This just makes me think that there is not a solid answer?

For one thing, NATO does not propose membership, something Russians seem to think though [0]. Countries apply to join. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/ex-nato-head-s...

According to that article, Putin wanted Russia to join NATO, but NATO told him "join the queue with all the other countries". Russia argued it should get special treatment (for obvious reasons) but NATO didn't agree with that.

I wonder, how would the world have turned out if NATO had made a different decision here?

(Just to be perfectly clear, I'm not arguing that NATO decisions justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine.)

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#207

Post by r721 »

Kranar wrote: post #172
alins wrote: post #54

Quoted post unavailable.

I wouldn't expect many people here to know who John Mearsheimer is and honestly the conversation appears to be that you must unequivocally support what the U.S. and West in general have done or else you're some kind of Russian propagandist/puppet.

Mearsheimer is extremely pro-Kremlin pundit though, he's even welcomed [1] at Valdai Discussion Club ("The Valdai conference is closely linked with Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has met with the participants of the Valdai Club’s annual meetings every year since its founding." [2])

[1] https://twitter.com/m_suchkov/status/1483765876310511617

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valdai_Discussion_Club

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#208

Post by slekker »

morelandjs wrote: post #127

Thurb off Google Russia. Looks to be one of their more popular websites.

Yandex is way more popular and has all services Google provide. Similarly there are multiple marketplace and Amazon-like companies, one aptly named Ozon. Russia is also planning on an alternative to SWIFT.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#209

Post by Natsu »

k41da wrote: post #131
unityByFreedom wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't sending troops to Ukraine so that's irrelevant.

Give it 72 hours. The news cycle is leading the announcements tomorrow and the announcements that will inevitably come next week. If the news is already talking WW3 (and yes, they are) then it won't be long before the UN deploys it's own "peacekeeping forces" and the world goes hot.

> Give it 72 hours.

Wasn't that the intel estimate on how long it'd take Russia to take over? I saw Biden's statement that he was sending thoughts & prayers while he watched this and would talk it over with world leaders tomorrow. Since the last few rounds of sanctions did nothing after Crimea, I don't see this changing things.

Re: Russian forces invade Ukraine after Putin orders attack

#210

Post by xyzzy_plugh »

The party was never truly over, was it?

I know many people who have escaped Ukraine over the last century. I say escaped, because for most of the last hundred years the Ukrainian people have been in a vice. Their culture, society and history have been gradually erased. The expats I know who left a few generations ago don't consider recent generations of Ukrainian peoples to even be Ukrainian. Russia has been bitterly grooming their neighbor ever since they were divorced in the fall of the USSR, but even before that, too.

It's all so sad. Beyond the deaths, turmoil, economic destruction, if Putin sees this through then an entire nation will have been erased. Erased!

I don't want a world war, but we must ask ourselves when is it worth risking sacrifice of that which is personal. When the next nation is consumed? When it's too late?

I recently worked with some really lovely peers from that region, from Ukraine. I wish I could teleport them somewhere else.

All of this makes me feel so sick.

Post reply on HN