201–210 of 411 posts
Google/Alphabet needs to be broken apart: "The National Labor Relations Act forbids employers from interfering with, restraining, or coercing employees in the exercise of rights relating to organizing, forming, joining or assisting a labor organization for collective bargaining purposes, or from working together to improve terms and conditions of employment, or refraining from any such activity. Similarly, labor orga…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You nailed something that I've noticed. Highly competent and intelligent people tend to lean libertarian in my experience. It's only when they get cancer, or finally meet some form of humility that they see the inherent advantages they had over others for what it is. Simply a roll of the dice. Competent, capable, hardworking people often fail to see the bigger picture, and dismiss others that aren't like them. If you…
> It's only when they get cancer, or finally meet some form of humility that they see the inherent advantages they had over others for what it is. It is surprising to me since I'm not from US. Don't tech workers at Google have good health and life insurance for such cases?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
shadowgovt said it very well and he speaks for me there. But I do believe that when hard work and preparation meets opportunity, good things happen. I'm not saying everything is pointless at all. I've earned every one of the few pennies I have the hard way, believe me. I have a non-stop work history going back to when I was 11 years old, grinding down spot welding tips on a lathe to buy my own video games and toys. M…
> 11 years old, grinding down spot welding tips on a lathe Where did you store the lathe at night? Where did you plug it in? And how did you get the electricity to that outlet, was there an account in your name with the power company as an 11 year old?
I'm not the GP but you're being obtuse and counterproductive. The idea that no one does anything completely on their own is not particularly revelatory or insightful. It comes off as dismissive more than anything else.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Were those expectations based on real observations, or did Google just get lucky with PR from the jump?
Contrary to the shoe-pounding HN rhetoric, there are good companies and bad companies. Which one is often a function of the people running it at the highest levels. Very often companies are founded by good people with good intents, who end up leaving for one reason or another, and are taken over by people with a different set of values. I don't know enough about the internal workings of Google to say that's the case…
A lot of people seem confused why a lot of tech people aren't pushing for unions. For me it's simple: Tech has brought me from near poverty to pretty darn wealthy. Why mess with that? Could a union help increase wages even more? Maybe. Are we being paid too little compared to our output? Maybe. But at the same time I'm being paid more than I could have possibly imagined before I entered the field.
Because the bubble might burst? corps are constantly trying to lowball devs, but for competitive leverage they might succeed. Unions are a way to build the profession while the going is good and bargaining power on our side - good luck getting that foosball table when there are more devs than jobs.
Imputing altruistic morals to profit-seeking entities and then continually being surprised and offended when companies act shady puts employees in a pointlessly weak position. Instead, treat the relationship as adversarial and come ready for battle every day against the legal structure designed to exploit you for the benefit of distant shareholders. There is no shame in fighting for yourself. You are worth it.
Altruistic expectations, no. But I seem to recall a time (up until perhaps 15 years ago) when Google would not have been expected to engage in such blatantly Machiavellian tactics as placing fake op-eds. Nowadays though, I don't put anything past Google.
A lot of people seem confused why a lot of tech people aren't pushing for unions. For me it's simple: Tech has brought me from near poverty to pretty darn wealthy. Why mess with that? Could a union help increase wages even more? Maybe. Are we being paid too little compared to our output? Maybe. But at the same time I'm being paid more than I could have possibly imagined before I entered the field.
The only time I’ve seen my union take action was when a previous employeer started bullshittimg about our pay been “industry leading” while in reality it was just average. Having a union that remaims friendly with the industry but isn’t afraid to callout single companies and use it’s leverage in that industry to make that company behave is extremely powerful.
Imputing altruistic morals to profit-seeking entities and then continually being surprised and offended when companies act shady puts employees in a pointlessly weak position. Instead, treat the relationship as adversarial and come ready for battle every day against the legal structure designed to exploit you for the benefit of distant shareholders. There is no shame in fighting for yourself. You are worth it.
Altruistic expectations, no. But I seem to recall a time (up until perhaps 15 years ago) when Google would not have been expected to engage in such blatantly Machiavellian tactics as placing fake op-eds. Nowadays though, I don't put anything past Google.
A lot of people seem confused why a lot of tech people aren't pushing for unions. For me it's simple: Tech has brought me from near poverty to pretty darn wealthy. Why mess with that? Could a union help increase wages even more? Maybe. Are we being paid too little compared to our output? Maybe. But at the same time I'm being paid more than I could have possibly imagined before I entered the field.
My dad spent his career at a unionized company. There were both union and salaried workers. He was salaried. He experienced all of the frustrations of working in a union shop, such as practically having to bribe people to do things for him like plugging something into an electrical outlet (required an electrician). At some companies, they literally had to bribe people.
Non-developers experience many of the same frustrations dealing with software. It's no secret why "shadow IT" is such a game changer for people who can engage in it.
My point is that it may be technically true that programmers don't need a union, because they have something that functions like a union.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unions reduce profits by giving employees a voice to protect themselves, demand the compensation they deserve, etc. It's therefore inevitable that corporations (Google, FAANG, or any others) will try to preempt or destroy them. It is their duty to shareholders.
This is downvoted, I assume because people are maybe disagreeing with the principle rather than the validity of what you said. A lot of large companies clearly do look at unions as something that forces them to pay more compensation for less work, which they'd have to justify to shareholders and the board. Even if the board would be cool with it, and they could make it fly with shareholders, leadership bonuses and st…