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High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

mattstoller.substack.com

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Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#201

Post by seventytwo »

kurthr wrote: post #127
voakbasda wrote: post #10

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

I'm not sure the government is actively killing it... they just aren't doing anything about the oligopolies and collusion that have always developed in these sort of situations. That may seem subtle, but many argue that we want to make the government do less to "keep them off our backs". Well, guess what these are the consequences. These markets may be "free", but they are not efficient, in fact they are arguably cor…

The voters have the power to curtail influence of big ag and other corporate oligarchies, but that requires not being afraid of voting for leftist ideas like class consciousness, unions, and stronger government regulation on big businesses.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#202

Post by freddie_mercury »

tootie wrote: post #198
orang2tang wrote: post #3

This is happening to every industry. There is an obvious consolidation and massive wealth transfer still ongoing. Sickening

It's just economies of scale at play. When it comes to food it makes perfect sense. Gov policy is not about farmers, its about keeping food supply plentiful and prices low. Big Ag are better at absorbing shocks. People can complain about profits and wages because we have never had to worry about famine.

I agree. Seems like a pretty obvious & inevitable transition to me. Corner bodegas got replaced by national chains. Local grocery stores got replaced by national chains. Local clothing manufacturers got replaced by national chains. Local bookstores got replaced by national chains. Local airlines got consolidated. Local car companies got consolidated. Local stock exchanges got consolidated.

It is pretty hard to find many examples where there's still a widespread set of small producers successfully staving off national consolidation.

It isn't clear to me how you, as a general matter, deal with the massive economies of scale that national chains have access to. Everything from much cheaper cost of capital to being able to cross-subsidize stores to better pricing power due to bulk buying to being able to simply hire better management due to have more free cash flow etc etc etc.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#203

Post by xyzzyz »

e44858 wrote: post #171
matchbok wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In absolutely no way does any beef sold in stores contain artificial color.

I frequently see "nitrites" in the ingredients list, whose main purpose is to color the meat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nitrite#Color_and_taste

They don’t add nitrites to raw meat, only to processed one. Nitrites is why your ham is pink instead of gray. But, more importantly than color, nitrites are added as a preservative, to avoid botulism.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#204

Post by shaklee3 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #118
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy grass-fed beef from my neighbor. There's no difference as far as I can see. I like to support my neighbor, but there's no magic, no difference cooking, no startling color-change tricks as reported elsewhere in this thread.

Don't know about grass-fed beef, but the taste of grass-fed milk compared to regular is night-and-day to me. I don't often splurge on organic but for milk I do solely for the taste.

organic milk mostly tastes different because it's pasteurized at a higher temperature. this makes it last longer and gives it a more of a cooked taste. it's personal preference if it tastes better.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#205

Post by xyzzyz »

jdavis703 wrote: post #66
mitchell_h wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fellow small farmer(live stock only) with a day gig. The only benefit to having a small farm these days is it provides a tax shelter, and an enjoyable(yet difficult) hobby. Even if you outright own the land, by the time you figure in maintenance and equipment on any cattle farm under 500-1000 head of cattle you simply can't turn a profit in a meaningful way. What you CAN do is use it as a tax shelter where you sorta…

Why is all the pasture raised, permaculture, organic blah blah stuff all so expensive if it’s not profitable? If I’m paying $12 for a dozen eggs when I can get non-sustainable, conventionally raised eggs from some megacorp for $3 then where is all the money going? Any consumer paying $12 for eggs certainly wouldn’t mind $13, which could then be profit.

It is expensive precisely because it’s not profitable. Imagine if you were a builder, selling artisanal houses built without use of any power tools, only with organic manual labor, using materials prepared with organic manual labor only. You’d be building one deck in the same time it takes normal builders to build an entire house. The only way you could make a living this way would be if you charged multiples of what normal construction costs. But, even then, you’d still complain about your business not being profitable, as you’d have troubles finding people who will pay as much.

Myself, I like good eggs, but I’m not paying $1/egg.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#206

Post by shaklee3 »

conradev wrote: post #143
xd wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took on some caged hens (about 6months back now) that were off for slaughter to be turned into dog food. Straight away they took to the patch of land in my garden I gave them and laid eggs .. the eggs they lay are on another level to anything store bought. I can put a pan of water on boil over a stove; crack an egg into it and have a perfect poached egg 2-3mins later. They are creamy and rich as if they have life c…

This. It is all in the yolks. Farm fresh eggs from happy chickens can be a nice deep yellow/orange, whereas factory eggs are usually pale yellow. Of all of the farm products discussed in the thread, eggs show the biggest difference in my opinion

this is not true: https://www.seriouseats.com/what-are-the-best-eggs

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#207

Post by apatters »

kurthr wrote: post #127
voakbasda wrote: post #10

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

I'm not sure the government is actively killing it... they just aren't doing anything about the oligopolies and collusion that have always developed in these sort of situations. That may seem subtle, but many argue that we want to make the government do less to "keep them off our backs". Well, guess what these are the consequences. These markets may be "free", but they are not efficient, in fact they are arguably cor…

I mean, corporations are created by government regulations. If you don't have a law which specifies how they work, they don't exist.

So if you have a body of law which enables the creation of these things, details how they are managed, and then they develop into oligopolies, this is not something that happens "naturally" -- it's a deliberate result produced by whoever controls those laws.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#208

Post by xyzzyz »

ipaddr wrote: post #22
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food in stores is cheap. And that matters to consumers more than whatever alleged quality small-time farmers can produce (was food actually better a hundred years ago? Doubt).

By not needing to give antibiotics and by allowing animals to move and by providing better food the product was healthier, tastier but costed more. You know those human growth hormone jumbo chicken beasts that have the woody texture and taste like water? They are cheaper for a reason...

> You know those human growth hormone jumbo chicken beasts that have the woody texture and taste like water?

Which country do you live at? They don’t give growth hormone to chicken in US, which are enormous nevertheless, so I am now somewhat morbidly interested in seeing US enormous chicken breeds that are additionally given growth hormones.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#209

Post by c_o_n_v_e_x »

adrr wrote: post #93
CreepGin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have opposite experiences with pork and poultry. The meat we get from local homesteads are noticeably way better than store bought. Maybe beef is a different story. I don't know... During 2020 summer, we raised 4 peking ducks in our backyard. We gifted some of the processed meat to extended family members. And to this day, they still can't stop talking about how good the meat were.

Poultry that is free range is more stringy and chewy. It also much leaner and smaller. I lived off free range chicken when i worked summers on my grandfather's farm in Hawaii. It is all personal preference. If you order chicken pho at a Vietnamese restaurant it will most likely be free range chicken or what they call "Walking chicken". It is completely different than a Tyson Chicken from Costco with oversized breast…

Here in Singapore and Malaysia, you can get "kampong chicken" (village chicken)... basically the chicken you see running around the village. They're great for soups and have a lot more flavor imo.
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