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Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

reuters.com

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Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#201

Post by native_samples »

tjpnz wrote: post #145
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies are requiring the vaccine because they make employees less likely to miss work due to illness. Then if I don't want to get a vaccine, I'll sign an agreement that if I get sick and miss work, I don't get paid, and that's the end of it.

That covers you but what about the members of staff who actually have a genuine reason for not receiving the vaccine? Peter in ops recently received a double lung transplant and no longer has a functioning immune system. Are you prepared to also sign an agreement barring yourself from ever walking into one of our offices or attending social gatherings?

If Peter in ops has no immune system, he will get sick from non-COVID viruses or diseases regardless of what is done by other people. In that hypothetical situation it would be him who shouldn't go to an office, not other people.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#202

Post by native_samples »

acdha wrote: post #185
epistasis wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccines are the magic future where a small bit of technology prevents disease and death. > don’t get it and you deserve to starve It's not by chance that you have to make up ridiculous words and put them in my mouth to attempt to criticize the comment, either in this part where I quoted you, or in the weird assertion about no one having to work.

> The vaccines are the magic future where a small bit of technology prevents disease and death. That's the part I've found so disappointing about this: a couple of decades of development and we have a massive breakthrough in our ability to rapidly create and update vaccines which precisely target near-arbitrary targets. Seeing what would have been a sci-fi technology when I was a kid being the target of so many consp…

Those medical experts should look at themselves for why people react this way.

An absolute refusal to accept any legal liability for harms done by the product, whilst simultaneously insisting it's perfectly safe? Check.

Claims that anyone worried about long term effects is a crazy malicious person when Moderna was failing to progress beyond animal trials due to multi-dose toxicity as recently as 2017? Check. [2]

Fanatical insistence on forced vaccination, even when the logical basis for mandates has been invalidated by equal infectiousness? Check. [1]

Constantly shifting claims about effectiveness, invalidated within months yet all presented with absolute confidence? Check.

Insistence that nobody look at the database of injuries and papers which do so should be retracted, despite it existing specifically to be analyzed? Check.

A million different non-vaccine explanations for the sudden spike in public heart attacks, none of which are remotely plausible? Check.

We could go on for many pages of this. The medical/public health establishment has consistently wrecked their own credibility and acted in untrustworthy, suspicion-raising ways. They don't then get to make a sad face and say "but sci fi". Let us know when Pfizer/Moderna can be taken to court for injuries and deaths caused by their sci-fi tech, and interest will grow.

[1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7...

[2] https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#203

Post by acdha »

native_samples wrote: post #200
acdha wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not boolean: vaccinated individuals transmit _less_ than the unvaccinated. It's not as good as we'd like but it's better than doing nothing and given how quick, easy, and cheap vaccines are it's like mandating seatbelt usage even if you know that some people will still be injured.

Not for a while now. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7... "In the UK it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% for vaccinated vs 23% for unvaccinated)." No difference in infectiousness. And with it, no logical justification for mandates. But this is…

That's not incompatible with my point: vaccines are not 100% protection, as medical professional warned us about since before the vaccines were deployed. Household transmission is the worst-case scenario because you're talking about very long periods of unmasked shared airspace, often with poor ventilation, and close contact.

For an employer, this tells you that you can't rely on one thing to prevent spread but the combination of masks, vaccination, air filtration, etc. remains effective.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#204

Post by Oddskar »

ekianjo wrote: post #144
Oddskar wrote: post #4

Quoted post unavailable.

> Completely reasonable in my book. Completely reasonable to destroy someone's livelihood while they may not be at much risk of dying from the said disease? Because, we are not even talking about preventing transmission at this point, in case you have not noticed. Vaccines only provide personal protection.

> Vaccines only provide personal protection.

Herd immunity is still a thing.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#205

Post by acdha »

native_samples wrote: post #202
acdha wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vaccines are the magic future where a small bit of technology prevents disease and death. That's the part I've found so disappointing about this: a couple of decades of development and we have a massive breakthrough in our ability to rapidly create and update vaccines which precisely target near-arbitrary targets. Seeing what would have been a sci-fi technology when I was a kid being the target of so many consp…

Those medical experts should look at themselves for why people react this way. An absolute refusal to accept any legal liability for harms done by the product, whilst simultaneously insisting it's perfectly safe? Check. Claims that anyone worried about long term effects is a crazy malicious person when Moderna was failing to progress beyond animal trials due to multi-dose toxicity as recently as 2017? Check. [2] Fana…

If I wanted antivax propaganda, I could get it myself. You're just copy-and-pasting things you don't understand so I won't be spending time on further replies.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#206

Post by Oddskar »

dang wrote: post #195
Oddskar wrote: post #4

Quoted post unavailable.

Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to HN. What you did here was flamebait, and predictably gave us a flamewar. Not cool. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Yeah I can see that now. I honestly did not see this as a "hot take" at all; at the time of posting there was less than a handful of comments and not much engagement.

But point taken.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#207

Post by disambiguation »

ecf wrote: post #196
disambiguation wrote: post #187

The median age of a Google employee is 30. The median age of Covid mortality is 80. Think about that.

Okay, I thought about it for 5 seconds… Hasn’t it always been the case that younger people vaccinate to help keep the older protected? Also, you don’t need to die of Covid to be placed in a hospital. Fewer available beds affects everyone.

> Hasn’t it always been the case that younger people vaccinate to help keep the older protected?

No, polio for example.

> Also, you don’t need to die of Covid to be placed in a hospital. Fewer available beds affects everyone.

"Collective ownership and harm" is not an unrestricted pass for universal mandates. Everything is connected, every action you take affects someone else. Driving for example puts everyone at risk. Not just on the road but also carbon emissions. Where do we draw the line? Wherever the line is, it should be data driven. Just like mortality, hospitalizations are strongly skewed by age.

https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboa...

According to Ohio data, people under 50 (2/3 of the population) account for ~20% of covid-related hospitalizations.

Consider also the data towards the bottom: Total bed capacity.

Out of 100% capacity, 63% are non-covid patients, and 18% are covid related.

If we apply our 20% hospitalization rate to 18% covid beds, we get.. 4%.

4% of total beds will be occupied by people with covid under 50.

Is 4% the difference between collapse or not?

This number could double, or even triple, and we would still have over 10% of beds available.

There was a time and place when there was a real risk of disaster. We did our lockdowns, our social distancing, and we vaccinated a ton of people.

Now it's time to start thinking about moving past covid, and getting back to normal life.

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#208

Post by Chris2048 »

wedowhatwedo wrote: post #25
nsxwolf wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's capitulation to coercion, which has its own side effects.

At my restaurant we save money by never cleaning the kitchen. No one should coerce me into doing something where it is not necessary. Cleaning wastes my time and money and it's my freedom to not clean! No one should take that freedom away in a free country!

Sure, but do you get to pretend your kitchen is clean at the same time?

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#209

Post by Chris2048 »

wedowhatwedo wrote: post #43
Ekaros wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't companies mandate a lobotomy then? After all it is just jab in the brain. You hardly notice it if you receive it...

Yes they can do that. They can then complain about the huge labor shortage.

Lobotomising people would create a surge of labour for many tech corps..

Re: Google says employees flouting vaccination rules will eventually be fired

#210

Post by azth »

belltaco wrote: post #177
ekianjo wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if health insurers will start denying claims related to the treatment of COVID infections Will health insurers deny claims related to cancer if you have been drinking alcohol? Good luck living in that world.

Quitting alcohol is nowhere as easy as getting covid vaccines. If there was a cheap/free safe vaccine that reduced the chances of getting hospitalized or dying of cancer by >60%, your point would be more valid.

The difference is that it's a choice to get addicted to alcohol.
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