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Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

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Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#201

Post by ziddoap »

pdimitar wrote: post #53

Formally the police can't demand a lot of stuff. Informally, they'll put you in a room and tell you that they have the legal right to keep you anywhere from 24 to 72 hours in there and they definitely can make you reconsider during that period -- to put it very mildly. Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Until there's true acc…

>So yeah, thanks for nothing -- namely for stating the ideal theoretical state of things -- but a lot of people out there need actual real-time protection, on the spot.

I don't understand why you would be upset that an organization that spends most of its time with court-related battles is, once again, dealing with court-related things. Should the EFF be putting boots on the ground in some sort of vigilante project that defends people in real time? What is the alternative you're suggesting the EFF do, if doing things in court is only worth a "thanks for nothing"?

>Until there's true accountability and 100% transparency

Where would this come from do you think? Because I'm thinking we start at the courts, but it seems like you might have other ideas.

The EFF can't fix everything, especially not in airport backrooms of other various countries. But that does not mean there efforts are a waste.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#202

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

pdimitar wrote: post #53

Formally the police can't demand a lot of stuff. Informally, they'll put you in a room and tell you that they have the legal right to keep you anywhere from 24 to 72 hours in there and they definitely can make you reconsider during that period -- to put it very mildly. Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Until there's true acc…

> Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards.

What a useless statement. Some? Out of how many? Do you have a source?

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#203

Post by _bohm »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #78
pdimitar wrote: post #53

Formally the police can't demand a lot of stuff. Informally, they'll put you in a room and tell you that they have the legal right to keep you anywhere from 24 to 72 hours in there and they definitely can make you reconsider during that period -- to put it very mildly. Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Until there's true acc…

>Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Sorry, I don't buy that this happens with any kind of frequency in the 21st century United States, such that a person could reasonably expect this to happen to them. Do you have more than ambiguous innuendo to back up this claim?

Rough rides are an example of a fairly well documented practice [0]. I personally know someone who was taken on one.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_ride_(police_brutality)

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#204

Post by dylan604 »

kibwen wrote: post #56
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is messed up. That said, biometric unlock is identification, NOT authorization; if you have secrets on your phone, do not use biometrics. They are a low to medium security convenience. Second, of course, don't keep evidence of crimes on your phone. And final tip, on an iphone, hitting the lock button on the side five times rapidly will disable the biometric unlock until the passcode has been filled in. It also…

On Android, rebooting the phone will disable biometric login until the passcode is re-entered.

Kind of hard to do that in front of the coppers though, especially if they have already taken it from you.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#205

Post by angulardragon03 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #83
Threeve303 wrote: post #75

Nothing stopping them from holding it up to your face to unlock it, though, right?

Correct. Five clicks of the sleep/wake button will disable Face ID temporarily. If you're prone to keeping incriminating stuff on the phone, you should probably have it off entirely.

You can also just hold power + a volume button until you get the "power off" dialog, which also disables FaceID until the next time you enter your passcode.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#206

Post by dylan604 »

rob74 wrote: post #60
jsilence wrote: post #55

If the government has my fingerprints, would they be allowed to use them to unlock the confiscated phone? Might explain why in Germany s of lately you have your fingerprints taken when getting your personal ID (Personalausweis).

I'd be very surprised if evidence obtained this way would be admissible at a trial. But if you want to be safe, use another finger for your Id card than for your phone...

10 fingers, 10 attempts before wipe. Better hope there's no misreads.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#207

Post by pbhjpbhj »

pdimitar wrote: post #135
adwn wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, have you observed that behavior first-hand? Did someone you know and trust observe it first-hand and tell you about it? Etc. We don't ask you to "prove" anything, but some more information instead of vague hints would be helpful.

I thought the standard benefit of the doubt implies that I am not here to tell stories just because I am bored. I've known such people, yes, three of them. Law-abiding normal people whose only mistake was that they were in a hurry and were slightly rude to the police officers because of it. Technically, each and every claim of somebody can be disputed to death. That's why I invoked your right to not trust what strang…

Did any of your acquaintances do anything after their release in response to the police torturing/brutalising them? Go to the press for example, or sue, raise a complaint, etc.?

Reading between the lines you're saying torture/brutality following arrest for speeding has been the experience of 3 of your friends?

Aside, your combative tone really isn't helping make a useful discussion. Something like "I have no evidence, sorry" would have been far better than attacking people requesting evidence.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#208

Post by pdimitar »

ziddoap wrote: post #201
pdimitar wrote: post #53

Formally the police can't demand a lot of stuff. Informally, they'll put you in a room and tell you that they have the legal right to keep you anywhere from 24 to 72 hours in there and they definitely can make you reconsider during that period -- to put it very mildly. Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Until there's true acc…

> So yeah, thanks for nothing -- namely for stating the ideal theoretical state of things -- but a lot of people out there need actual real-time protection, on the spot. I don't understand why you would be upset that an organization that spends most of its time with court-related battles is, once again, dealing with court-related things. Should the EFF be putting boots on the ground in some sort of vigilante project…

The only thing I'll say is that all of this has been parroted to death, ever since the 70s, and I am not seeing an improvement anywhere. People love this fuzzy feeling that they are "spreading awareness" and that "we must start somewhere" but historically, I've lived long enough to not see those make any difference so far.

But I really don't want to debate. I came to state anecdotal evidence + opinion. Neither of which is an indisputable fact and I have not claimed otherwise.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#209

Post by bb611 »

goodcanadian wrote: post #119
HideousKojima wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally speaking a court can compel self-incriminating testimony if they first grant you immunity: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witness_immunity Say, for example, you were a low level drug dealer and the court wanted evidence from your phone to convict your boss/supplier/whoever. They could compel you to unlock your phone, but could not use the evidence on it against you , only against your supplier, thanks to t…

Legally speaking, I don't think they can compel self-incriminating testimony simply by giving you immunity. They can certainly encourage it by offering immunity in exchange, but that is not the same as compelling it.

They can: https://freemanlaw.com/immunity/

If you invoke your Fifth Amendment right not to self-incriminate you can be served with Statutory Immunity and then forced to testify, with contempt charges if you fail to testify.

There are also several different types of voluntary immunity, which is what you're describing. Those can't be compelled because they may not prevent the government from using your testimony against you in other venues, statutory immunity does not.

Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused

#210

Post by NoGravitas »

giantg2 wrote: post #153
pdimitar wrote: post #53

Formally the police can't demand a lot of stuff. Informally, they'll put you in a room and tell you that they have the legal right to keep you anywhere from 24 to 72 hours in there and they definitely can make you reconsider during that period -- to put it very mildly. Hint: some cops are really good in the skill of inflicting pain to people without lasting medical trace to prove it afterwards. Until there's true acc…

I feel like it's only a matter of time until enough people get screwed by the system, see the blatant hypocrisy, realize that this is an oligarchy, and the system collapses. Maybe I'm just an optimist. One thing that individuals do have power to do (but will be fought vehemently on) is jury nullification. Sadly, most don't know this, and/or are easily manipulated into believing the people in power. 2-10% of incarcera…

The tricky bit about jury nullification is that you must hide your knowledge of jury nullification from the DA in order to get on the jury. And if you lie in order to do so, then you can just be thrown off the jury and replaced with an alternate.
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