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Performance Improvements in .NET 6

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 6

#201

Post by vips7L »

DonnyV wrote: post #199
smackeyacky wrote: post #94

I'm going to pile in too late and sing the virtues of .NET core or whatever its called now. Deployment of web apps to containers is a breeze, the language is modern feeling. Roslyn is about the most awesome thing I have played with. Razor pages are a breeze compared to the giant piles of dependency hell that client side SPAs or node have become. It feels lean and mean and I can be sitting at a debian box or a windows…

Microsoft should either use Flutter or make a C# version of something like Flutter. Its simple to understand and doesn't have any magic xaml tag to make things work.

Isn't this just .NET MAUI?

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 6

#202

Post by mjul »

Lobosque wrote: post #173

The problem with .NET Core is that while the runtime is truly multiplatform, the development experience is not. The performance improvements on each release are trully impressive, but I think at this point the focus should go towards a better development experience. Developing on VS Code is such a hurdle thanks to the Omnisharp language server that constantly crashes, and the project does not seems to be among MS top…

JetBrains Rider is an amazing cross-platform IDE for .NET, with many more features than VS Code.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 6

#203

Post by sbelskie »

stevefan1999 wrote: post #77
vp8989 wrote: post #5

Making JIT 4% (or whatever) faster is cool but it would probably have higher ROI for the .NET ecosystem if Microsoft assigned some of these high caliber people to instead work on improving or simply rewriting some of the atrocious open source libraries that are available. Would you rather have an A language/runtime with a D open source ecosystem or a B for both?

This is not a MS project, but this thing called Hot Chocolate here ( https://github.com/ChilliCream/hotchocolate ) is very incredible. It is the best GraphQL framework I've worked on with excellent /EF(core)?/ support (even better than that of Hasura and dgraph) on the .NET ecosystem and overall software engineering. Maybe I can even swap the data source out with MongoDB as well, since it actually accepts IQueryable…

IIRC correctly, you may run into service scope issues if you just use a Mongo collection as an IQueryable directly, but there is a first class integration for Mongo from Chillicream: https://chillicream.com/docs/hotchocolate/integrations/mongo...

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 6

#204

Post by vips7L »

saberience wrote: post #159
zvrba wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the uniformity of Java language. I like the "inner class" feature that has to be manually emulated in C#. I also like that I can implement anonymous abstract class-interface ad hoc in Java. I wish that internal visibility in C# was tied to a namespace instead of assembly, like package visibility in Java. Method co-/contravariance in C# is tied to interfaces. I prefer it tied to individual methods, like in Java…

As a counter example: As someone that worked for years in .Net and started trying to develop some projects in the Java ecosystem... what a fucking mess. Days of work to try and get projects to BUILD. Do I have to use Gradle, Maven, or something else? Which IDE to use? The IDE isn't working with whatever version of Gradle or Maven I'm using. Dependency hell. Restarting my IDE repeatedly, re-downloading dependencies, t…

Oracle has done wonders for Java. It has kept it from languishing like it was under Sun.

Most of this just sounds like complaints from someone who doesn't know the ecosystem and doesn't want to learn it. Someone who thinks your choice of IDE matters for a project, when in fact it doesn't.

> Keeping massive amounts of notes because I'm sure in two weeks I'm going to forget which arcane command I need to keep my Java build environment working.

    gradle build
    mvn package
> Having to work out which Java runtime environment I need

Do you not have to figure out which version of .net core, .net framework, .net whatever for each project?

> Having to register on the Oracle website to download their runtime,

    brew install openjdk@
> I can get a new engineer setup to write and deploy .Net in minutes

Here's what I do, and it takes 3 minutes:

    my_package_manager install openjdk_version_i_need
    my_package_manager install maven
    my_package_manager install vscode
    code --install-extension vscjava.vscode-java-pack
    code /path/to/the/project
> recommended one is again verbose, ugly, and more complex to write and understand than Tasks and Async in .Net.

This is probably your only valid criticism until Loom is launched.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 6

#205

Post by phillipcarter »

foepys wrote: post #39

WinForms and its Visual Studio designer are still broken, WPF is still riddled with bugs and was declared obsolete in ~2017 in favor of UWP, UWP is marked obsolete in favor of WinUI, and WinUI's OSS release was postponed just two days ago because it's not ready. Microsoft is marketing .NET 6 as the replacement for .NET Framework but you still cannot properly do desktop UI with it. I honestly don't understand why they…

Honestly, I don't know why anyone would want to write Windows desktop apps anymore. The browser is the ultimate UI platform and you can do incredible things with it that will work outside of Windows too.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 6

#206

Post by phillipcarter »

ryanjshaw wrote: post #148
int_19h wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

XSLT/XPath/XQuery 2.0+ has little first party support in general, in all programming ecosystems that I can think of. I think the problem is that it's all much more complicated than the originals, and meanwhile XML has become legacy tech - not that it's going away anytime soon, but it's kind of like the COBOL of data.

.NET caters to the enterprise, or at least it used to. It's irrelevant what other ecosystems prioritise. What makes you say that XML is legacy tech? In the financial industry XML is used extensively. For example, FpML underpins a massive part of global finance, and it is a regularly updated standard. COBOL has been superceded by other languages; I'm not aware of any technology that can replace the XML-based FpML sche…

> .NET caters to the enterprise, or at least it used to.

.NET is for enterprises who don't treat tech as frozen in time the instant it gets adopted now.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 6

#207

Post by eitland »

girvo wrote: post #75
eitland wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s way worse than React in this regard (if not only by its sheer size and larger scope) FWIW, I've used React for 18 months now. Except Java and classic core PHP it is one of the most stable platforms I've developed on. So, in my view being less stable than React isn't a big problem.

React itself is incredibly stable, for sure, but its third party dependencies (core libraries most use) are a little less so

For what it is worth this is one thing the team I work on did before I arrived there and that I now tell new team members:

we actively avoid dependencies, especially redux.

React actually works fantastic without if you do it correctly and we rarley have any hard debugging problems that get my head to feel it will explode.

I had one big debugging job during the last few months and that quickly turned out to be on the backend.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 6

#208

Post by phillipcarter »

yCombLinks wrote: post #35
whb07 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out F#, the bastardized yet legitimate child of MSFT. If you like functional languages or would like to try it, give it a whirl! https://dotnet.microsoft.com/learn/languages/fsharp-hello-wo... If you use vscode, highly suggest to use Ionide extension. You’ll be quickly amazed at how smooth it all works.

F# is cool, but definitely not where to start. C# is by far, by far, by far the most popular .net language

I'd also argue that C# is a worse language to start with than F# if you're coming from Python.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 6

#209

Post by jayd16 »

zigzag312 wrote: post #142
tester34 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with XAML and what could have replace it? Maybe HTML?

C# with hot reload. Issues with XAML: - verbose - static (not good fit for dynamic UIs) - templating is unnecessarily complex - contains code-like constructs (behaviors, convertors) - being a separate language forces constant mental context switching when developing, which is bad for productivity. Tooling is more complex and breaks more often (like Intellisense issues) The only good thing that XAML does is separates…

>What would you say are the benefits of XAML that warrant using another language for UI?

I think the main reason is they wanted a declarative language along side their imperative language. You don't necessarily need to recompile anything to get a layout drawn in an editor with XAML.

Re: Performance Improvements in .NET 6

#210

Post by lloydatkinson »

pjmlp wrote: post #134
lloydatkinson wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maui is built on top of UWP, in what concerns Windows backend. No it is not, how is that going to work on Mac? It is it's own thing, and on Windows it will use WinUI not UWP.

Learn before commenting. WinUI is UWP stack, that is what Reunion is all about, merging both worlds with WinUI on top. Plenty of blog posts where to find such information.

How about before being a condescending person YOU do some reading?

https://microsoft.github.io/microsoft-ui-xaml/about.html

"WinUI 3 works with any app supported by the Windows App SDK. WinUI 3 can be used DIRECTLY as the UI layer for desktop apps, or starting next year, it can be used to modernize a Win32 app's UI gradually, using XAML Islands to mix and match with the following technologies:

WPF WinForms MFC ComCtl32"

Or here: https://www.thurrott.com/dev/206351/microsoft-confirms-uwp-i...

Oh and look here: http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/flow/item/24274_WindowsUWPde...

And finally from the last link: "You can use WinUI 3 as the entire UI layer for your desktop app, replacing your current main UI framework."

You are probably thinking of XAML which is common to all.

Please do your own research before shitting on someone.

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