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Thunderbird 91.0

thunderbird.net

201–210 of 279 posts

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#201
> Chat: Beta-level support for Matrix servers (set chat.prpls.prpl-matrix.disable to false)...

Oh, this is neat! I didn't know matrix support was coming this soon; nice!

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#202

> Thunderbird now operates in multi-process (e10s) mode by default What does e10s mean here? UPDATE: I've found an explanation[1]: > In Mozilla documentation "Electrolysis" is often shorted as "e10s". What a silly scheme. [1]: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis >

What benefits are there with e10s in a mail client?

I suppose it could be a form of sandboxing the HTML rendering

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#203
post #48

I've used Thunderbird for many years, but recently switched to KMail because that has proper search functionality. In KMail, I can instantly search for a keyword in all my emails from the last one and a half decade, whereas this takes several minutes in Thunderbird, and during the search the UI is unusable because the result list is incrementally populated which makes it impossible to actually click on results reliab…

Other than that, Thunderbird works great. I've used it for decades and still recommend it to others (mainly becauce I never invested in trying enough other cross-platform alternatives), but 'great' wouldn't be a word I'd use to describe it, there are just so many little quirks and annoyances, to the point I often have the feeling using it is constantly working around and/or ignoring those.

To me there is not a single client which isn't off somehow, missing something. I feel like nobody really loves mail client development, because email kinda sucks. Mail just needs to die IMO. You wouldn't design something like email today. I wouldn't want to support all the legacy "features" either. It's a wonder someone is caring about these clients at all.

It's not like mail is going anywhere soon. Look at the fax. There is many decades of infuriating mail client dependecy ahead.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative perspective on exactly the same data: This kind of developer-driven change does not wind me up, because developers working on products should be able to reflect on how those products are part of society and if they choose to make changes in their branding, presentation, or diction, they should be able to do so. Mozilla has a pretty rich tradition of employee activism, as we all observed after the Eich deb…

My company made the change from blacklist/whitelist to blocklist/allow list over two years ago and people, mostly external, still get annoyed and I just can't understand why. The former is literally one letter different and the latter makes just as much, arguably more, sense than the term it replaced. I get that some people see it as just posturing but you have to start somewhere if you are going to change the cultur…

I have no trouble believing that the sentiment behind those changes is genuine.

However, I'm also somewhat annoyed by these kinds of changes, mostly because I would never have associated the "black" in blacklist with the skin colour until someone started pointing it out as an issue. While some terminology might be actually problematic, from my point of view there was never any problem with the word blacklist until someone started pointing it out. Now there is.

Once you make enough noise about an association like that, the association will certainly be there for more and more people even if it weren't there before. The problem kind of creates itself.

I'm fairly sure many Americans are understandably rather sensitive and sore about skin colour and racial justice right now. I'm not from the US, so depending on where you're from, this might make a difference in perspectives.

I'm also white and of the ethnic majority in my country, so I certainly don't see all the issues that minorities, immigrants or other ethnic groups might face. If it turned out that the word "blacklist" (to give an example) had been seen as an actual issue all along by a significant proportion of black people in my cultural environment or in most of the world, I wouldn't oppose the change. But if it hadn't been previously associated negatively that way, then creating that association and making a fuss about it has actually created a problem (or at least made one much bigger), not solved one.

While changing a term might not be that big of a thing practically, having to react to something you think shouldn't be an issue in the first place can be annoying out of principle. A social dynamic where you need to go along just because someone else sees a potential problem can also be annoying. My guess would be that the majority of people who are annoyed by these kind of changes are annoyed because of something along those lines.

Once you push something that sparks that kind of a reaction in people hard enough, you get people annoyed, and if you then push more, you get them more annoyed.

As for changing the culture, I'd rather like to see people getting much less neurotic about ethnicity and race rather than more so. I facepalmed hard when I read that, according to some people, the "ok" sign had become problematic because some far-right people had started using it, and that it should be avoided. I think that was an absurd stance; if you stop using an otherwise innocuous sign because someone else started using it for a bad purpose, you end up emphasize that new, bad association. (In that case you'd also kind of let the far-right people win, which makes it even more absurd, but that's not directly relevant here.)

The world is full of associations you can make, including ones with colour that matches someone's skin or religious symbol or any number of things. I've noticed that people are more prone to seeing connections, both in terms of reacting to actual ones as well as making less significant or spurious ones, when they feel more sensitive about related issues. It's no wonder if many (especially) Americans are currently trying to spot even the slightest racial issues and want to change the culture to get rid of them.

I'm just not sure I agree with that approach, or with the idea that it's "justice" or the only way to go. Rather than seeing a cultural change where we're so sensitive to racial issues that we try to see every potential negative connotation imaginable and get rid of them, I'm much prefer to see change towards a world where people don't feel the need to see all of those.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#205
post #80
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"master" is a "blocklisted" word now. I also think it's silly to change the word on places which doesn't have "slave"s (e.g. github master branch > main branch switch), but well..

I read a gitlab blog[0] where they mention that "master" comes from bitkeeper where there was a master repository and slave repositories. It does make one wonder, if there was more diversity in CS when these things were being made whether "master-slave" analogies would have made it in or whether other analogies like "parent-child", "major-minor", "leader-follower" or similar would have made it in. [0] https://about.g…

The master-slave terminology is used outside of CS as well. For example in EE we have master-slave edge-triggered D or JK flip-flops. I don’t feel strongly either way about such word use but I am fine with renaming them too. The fact that such change is so triggering to some people is strange!

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#207
post #4

CardDAV address book support Although it's sad that this will replace the plugins that provide this feature, it's good to see support built into the core and a continued investment in implementing standards.

> CardDAV address book support

That’s nice. That will make it easy to setup master-data management without additional extensions.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#208
post #90

Huh? No Linux version available?

Why are you saying that? There's a Linux version. Although I'ld expect a Linux user to be using their package manager instead anyway. But maybe Thunderbird should eventually release a Flatpak or Snap or AppImage which are cross-distro. https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/all/

>But maybe Thunderbird should eventually release a Flatpak or Snap or AppImage which are cross-distro.

https://flathub.org/apps/details/org.mozilla.Thunderbird

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#209
Is it actually out yet? If I attempt downloading from Thunderbird.net, I get 78.13.0, the only way to get 91 is if I select Beta channel.

Re: Thunderbird 91.0

#210

Are there any plans for full integration of Thunderbird's calendar with iCloud Calendar? I still have to use a web browser to access iCloud Calendar when on Windows, and I don't want to use Outlook.

There are a few blog posts floating around that explain how to extract your iCloud CalDAV access credentials in order to add iCloud calendars to Thunderbird. Last I checked there is no nice GUI for setting that up, if that is what you're after.
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