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In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

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Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#201

Post by [deleted] »

dannyw wrote: post #162
Animats wrote: post #152

Take a close look at the way this works. If there are enough hash matches, Apple apparently gets to look at all the pictures on the phone. The description says "threshold reached, all content visible and unlocked". "All", not "Matched". Matches can be forced from the outside, by sending pictures to the phone. They don't even have to be from the known-bad image set. Using an adversarial system to try to create hash ma…

Even regardless of whether it's all photos or all matched photos, the issue is that Apple is actively and publicly building adversarial black boxes that run on your device, on a OS level (on iOS AND macs!), with the sole and explicit goal of snitching on you to the government for possessing information that is deemed wrong. The actual specifics of what material is currently deemed wrong is irrelevant, because it will…

[deleted]

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#202

Post by cryptonector »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #200
baq wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no viable option if you want a quality smartphone. Androids spy on you already. Apple will be spying on you. The dark side of economies of scale.

We are not here by accident. Those are symptoms of a public that doesn't care. We have been explaining the consequences of each choice for techs during the last 20 years. I've had the talk with my friends and familly many times. Very patiently. Very nicely. Nobody cares. It's just an annoyance for them. And it requires an enormous more amounr of energy to live your live this way than not caring. Even more if you gott…

How would the public demonstrate caring about this?

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#203

Post by TeeMassive »

Here's how it will probably go wrong; because privacy abuses always sit on a slippery slope:

Detect CP

Detect child abuse

Detect signs of child abuse

Detect signs of abuse

Detect signs of violent crime

Detect violent crime

Detect crimes

Detect "crimes"

People not believing me, then tell one example of a privacy encroaching policy that didn't expand its original scope of "think of the children" and "terrorism".

The worst part is that they are probably doing it and abusing it and are now seeking a way to normalize their conduct.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#204

Post by ratsnake »

midev wrote: post #134
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the suggestion is that a hash of a police uniform will be used to convict of CP but rather the idea that a new law will be passed that - in order to protect the police from 'harassment' - will outlaw taking pictures of the police. So in that case in discovery the picture of a police officer would be evidence that you broke that hypothetical law. The technology deployed to protect the children opens up t…

> would be evidence that you broke that hypothetical law Hypothetical situations are not an argument to real world discussions. Sure, if that happened, it'd be terrible. But, that's not happening....

It's not hypothetical https://reason.com/2021/07/27/florida-bill-criminalize-filmi...

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#205

Post by sneak »

Someone1234 wrote: post #38

Apple's mistake is that they seemingly believe there is pushback because people misunderstand how it works. The reality is more nuanced: People understand exactly how it works, and how it works is that it is turn-key onboard spyware, that Apple pinky-swears isn't being used wrong today . For example if the scope/mission expands (e.g. foreign governments), suddenly you've created a drag-net for whatever "badness" is o…

> Apple's mistake is that they seemingly believe there is pushback because people misunderstand how it works. The reality is more nuanced: People understand exactly how it works, and how it works is that it is turn-key onboard spyware, that Apple pinky-swears isn't being used wrong today.

It's not a mistake. It's gaslighting.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#206

Post by zimpenfish »

Animats wrote: post #152

Take a close look at the way this works. If there are enough hash matches, Apple apparently gets to look at all the pictures on the phone. The description says "threshold reached, all content visible and unlocked". "All", not "Matched". Matches can be forced from the outside, by sending pictures to the phone. They don't even have to be from the known-bad image set. Using an adversarial system to try to create hash ma…

> If there are enough hash matches, Apple apparently gets to look at all the pictures on the phone.

Not according to the technical summary PDF they released[1], "Only those images that have a voucher that corresponds to a true CSAM match can have their vouchers’ data decrypted [...] Even if the device-generated inner encryption key for the account is reconstructed based on the above process, the image information inside the safety voucher for non-matches is still protected by the outer layer of encryption"

[1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#207

Post by ComodoHacker »

RavlaAlvar wrote: post #73

I really don’t understand why apple is doing this. What point are they trying to score and from whom ? Do they think implementing a spyware in iPhone would boost sales? Or does it bring revenue from charging government agency to use this feature? I just don’t get it.

My take is they believe they are fighting a good fight. I don't justify this move, but I can see why they are pushed so hard to do it.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#208

Post by dcow »

midev wrote: post #132
eurasiantiger wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a lot of trust in your courts. Let’s hope it is not misplaced.

Not at all! Courts are a joke. You still need to know the process, though. Images of police officers are not being used to convict CP charges.

That was not the claim. It seems you are deliberately/conveniently remaining naive at this point.

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#209

Post by zimpenfish »

dannyw wrote: post #177
guessbest wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can already do that by sending a iOS user an incriminating message via airdrop or sharing an album. Unless this search is limited to only photos saved to the personal Photos Album, all apps on the iOS device become an evidence plant attack vector including the built in mail app, third party apps that can accept image messages or have planted illegal images, and even iMessage.

This is especially important given that NSO Group's Pegasus' works through sending multimedia iMessages/WhatsApps with exploits. The former auto-uploads to iCloud, and the latter can be configured to auto-upload all received media to iCloud. It almost sounds like a feature Apple is building to explicitly support the imprisonment of dissents through tje false planting of child pornography. What the actual f--k?

> It almost sounds like a feature Apple is building to explicitly support the imprisonment of dissents through tje false planting of child pornography.

But you can already do this without these changes - cf the UK police officer currently under investigation for having CP on her phone that someone else sent her and (she claims) never opened.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/02/former-polic...

Re: In internal memo, Apple addresses concerns around new Photo scanning features

#210

Post by akomtu »

stefanve wrote: post #189
akomtu wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pictures is just a pretense. Step #2 will be URLs of pictures that users send each other using the phone's keyboard. Step #3 will quietly expand the definition of a URL to any keyboard input. At that point, Apple will have a god's eye view into all communications of their users, be it over WhatsApp, Signal, SMS or an online forum. Imagine having a dashboard that shows in realtime with gps coordinates how many text me…

If Apple wanted to do all that they can, they don’t really need a special feature for that and tell te world.

Apple cares about reputation and that's why they test the waters first with these announcements.
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