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The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

leidenmedievalistsblog.nl

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Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#201

Post by cwkoss »

cwkoss wrote: post #184
jvanderbot wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Majesty had tax collectors, a market economy, and a hands-off governing policy: You funded creation of main buildings, but they were or were not occupied based on demand for those buildings. You put up rewards for actions, but those were or were not acted on based on whatever your citizens were doing. You funded (from treasury) upgrades to goods producers, but nobody got those upgrades until they went and purchased t…

Majesty was a really great game that I spend a lot of time on in my youth. I'd love to see more games that work similarly: every entity is semi-autonomous - gameplay is about incentivizing, guiding progress and managing resources, but the entities don't need input to act.

And the the tax collector had a very distinctive "tAx collECTor~" sound byte that he said OVER AND OVER. It is drilled deeply into my psyche

The voice acting was good, but they didn't have many sound bytes so it got pretty repetitive. Also whenever a gnome died they'd say "But I'm just a gnome...". When minotaurs were trampling your kingdom, it could get pretty annoying.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#202

Post by kibwen »

at_a_remove wrote: post #136
cperciva wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bizarrely, a town of less than four thousand people actually has an assassins' guild, with roughly ten members. Do they take turns, each assassinating one person a year? The charitable interpretation might be that, in addition to being responsible for assassinations in the town, the guild is also responsible for assassinations in the surrounding countryside; in medieval times the rural population significantly outnum…

Well, Raise Dead is pretty pricey. And face it, nobody is out there paying to assassinate farmers. If you really want a particular farmer dead, ask some of the nearby lizardfolk to do it for a song. Farmers are really interesting in the tax records, at least a function of property. They're the plankton of feudal society: necessary but otherwise nobody pays much attention to them. The miserable hamlets of D&D have an…

> And face it, nobody is out there paying to assassinate farmers.

Ah, but in small towns essential services are often performed by volunteers. You've got your volunteer fire department, volunteer EMTs, volunteer assassin's guild, the usual.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#203

Post by cellis »

jvanderbot wrote: post #168
pessimizer wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government is always abstracted in games, rather than being material. If a game had a tax collector, it would have to figure out what would happen if you killed the tax collector. What if the tax collector is actually a tax farmer[1]? Would his gang go after you? If the gang was too afraid of you, would they raise taxes on your neighbors to compensate? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_(revenue_leasing)

Majesty had tax collectors, a market economy, and a hands-off governing policy: You funded creation of main buildings, but they were or were not occupied based on demand for those buildings. You put up rewards for actions, but those were or were not acted on based on whatever your citizens were doing. You funded (from treasury) upgrades to goods producers, but nobody got those upgrades until they went and purchased t…

Majesty was amazing! I think i got the expansion pack as well, I can't tell you how much I played that game, still remember taking it out the plastic cd wrap from Walmart

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#204

Post by samstave »

bargle0 wrote: post #200
samstave wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall back in the early 90s my buddy (who is now an EVP of games dev at blizzard) - was asking me why I didn't like playing masters of Orion- I told him "it's no fun to play a spreadsheet" --- Then I read this interesting article about a guy in SF several years ago and he was the key accountant, strategist for (whatever that massive space battle game is that was hyper popular with the russians) - and he didn't eve…

Eve Online, probably.

That's it

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#205

Post by stakkur »

‘Accuracy’ is a nonsensical idea in fiction. Like all fictional stories, the purpose of games is not to be ‘realistic’ or ‘accurate’. It’s to get you to willingly suspend disbelief. It’s light entertainment for goodness sake, not a doctoral thesis.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#206

Post by dunnevens »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #173
dunnevens wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foundation does this. No road building at all. Paths are created organically by activity. In addition, the player never builds houses either. The townspeople pick where they want their house to go. There is road building in Banished, but the townspeople will only use them if it’s an optimal path. They’re not the least bit shy about ignoring the roads if they can get to their destination via a shortcut. Since the road…

> Foundation does this. No road building at all. Paths are created organically by activity. You can put the roads where you want them by placing taboo zoning where you don't want them. Foundation's villagers have an unnaturally strong preference for staying on existing roads, so this is necessary if you want to straighten a road that was kinked due to an obstacle that no longer exists. > In addition, the player never…

Yes, you can micromanage roads if you like using the forbidden zone tool. You can also shape the roads by plopping a building into the middle of a path and forcing the citizens to route around it. But, by and large, the roads are generated mostly from activity. It's been one of the selling points of Foundation from the beginning.

And you are correct about houses. But it's still a difference from the usual medieval city builders in which house placement is something players do directly. Part of Foundation's goal of making their villages more organic and less grid. That was the point I was trying to make without getting into the weeds of how the housing mechanic worked in detail.

On a side note, I wish Foundation had the option for direct placement of houses. There were bugs in past versions which prevented house construction without enormous amounts of decorations. The current version is much better, but can still be mysterious as to why houses aren't being built in a desirable area with what seems to be plenty of room and the townspeople are wanting more houses. The reasons for the non-construction are not often clear. One thing I hope the game improves over time.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#208

Post by gspr »

mttyng wrote: post #109
gspr wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider yourself warned: all Paradox games are highly addictive drugs. What you must have experienced with Stellaris is representative of most their games. EU IV is indeed a good choice if you liked Stellaris (I usually explain Stellaris to people as EU in spaaaaace).

Personally, I prefer Aurora and Distant Worlds: Universe. Paradox games are fantastic but these are Dwarf Fortress-level detail (if you’re into that sort of thing).

Ooh, interesting. I see Distant Worlds 2 is slated for release this year. I'll try it when it's out! Thanks.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#209

Post by gspr »

mmcdermott wrote: post #105
gspr wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider yourself warned: all Paradox games are highly addictive drugs. What you must have experienced with Stellaris is representative of most their games. EU IV is indeed a good choice if you liked Stellaris (I usually explain Stellaris to people as EU in spaaaaace).

I've been meaning to revisit Paradox games for a minute. Crusader Kings II hooked me the most. I never really delved into EU. The big problem I had with Stellaris is that I usually lose interest in the mid-game. I love the exploration, the building and even the initial diplomacy, but I just lose interest when everything levels out. I understand from AARs and the like that there are late game effects to disrupt the st…

I agree that midgame is a bit of a slog: the most generic events, plus you're typically dominating the computer players. The for former, the Khan and L-cluster stuff have helped a bit (don't know if that was added before or after you tried it). For the latter, I've found that playing at max difficulty helps.
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