How to summon and sell your soul to Satan and other devils • Hacker News Board

Re: How to summon and sell your soul to Satan and other devils

#201

Post by normac2 » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #180

normac2 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't recommend doing any of these things, but if someone wants to, I highly suggest not naively following the directions of a satirical blogpost. Very interesting stuff. Regarding this part, are you saying that that the supernatural claims behind these rituals are real in some literal sense, or that they have psychological effects that might not be desirable?

I'm going to punt on the first half, the second is emphatically true. Or the psychological effects could be desirable. No one should recommend ceremonial magic and occult study, in my opinion. Anyone who 'should' be going down the rabbit hole can't be dissuaded. But if you must, start with something like Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson. Don't just pull out the Goetia and start summoning demons. Reality may o…

> But if you must, start with something like Prometheus Rising by Robert Anton Wilson. Don't just pull out the Goetia and start summoning demons. Reality may or may not be mutable, but our perception of it certainly is. Would you really pick that as a first experiment?

Maybe so, because my mind is so bull-headedly resistant to being modified (at least in the ways associated with occult stuff, like visions, extreme emotion, etc.) that maybe I need a dose of the hard stuff to even notice it ;)

As a naturalist I don't think I can sign on to the first half, even as a realistic possibility. But for psychological effects, sure, I could buy it. The ability of the mind to do get into pretty extreme psychological states, via ritual and otherwise, is easily underestimated.

In fact I would say many naturalists hold onto that argument harder than just about anyone, because it's critical to help explain the weird stuff people experience (e.g. alien abductions are often hypnagogic hallucinations or sleep paralysis, near-death experiences are due to various impaired brain states, etc.)

Re: How to summon and sell your soul to Satan and other devils

#202

Post by trasz » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:55 PM UTC

3gg wrote: post #197

trasz wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even assuming the daemon thing would work, and that the daemons would turn out to be evil, why do you assume it’s your religion that would work, and not one of thousands others?

Well, it was their religion that was in large part used to wipe out every pagan religion and culture that existed prior to it -- and then some more -- and submit the heathens to the true god. So, obviously, this must be the one :)

In one (granted, particularly aggressive) part of the world.

Except it then got replaced (reduced to an ornament, if you like ornaments commonly associated with raping children) by humanism. So, it’s just one of the gods who was doing really well, and then failed.

Re: How to summon and sell your soul to Satan and other devils

#203

Post by onecommentman » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

trasz wrote: post #193

yoloyoloyoloa wrote: post #188

If you have ever messed with the demonic and you want to feel safe again here is a prayer you can say out loud that will help: Father God, I come to you in the Name of Jesus, declaring that no weapon that is formed against us shall prosper and every tongue which rises against us in judgement we do condemn. This is our heritage as servants of the Lord and our righteousness is from You, O Lord of Hosts (Isaiah 54:17).…

Even assuming the daemon thing would work, and that the daemons would turn out to be evil, why do you assume it’s your religion that would work, and not one of thousands others?

Poster didn’t state that this was the only religion that would work, only that this one would work. Existence proof, not uniqueness proof.

Re: How to summon and sell your soul to Satan and other devils

#204

Post by zozbot234 » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 10:01 PM UTC

normac2 wrote: post #191

zozbot234 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The POV of psi researchers these days is more like "psi phenomena might or might not exist, but if they do exist they're mischievous enough that there's no way they're going to show up unambiguously in a rigorous controlled experiment!" In this sense the physical effects of higher or "spiritual" magick are indistinguishable from psi, and for the same reason they're most likely not going to impact our understanding of…

Interesting take. It's analogous to religious arguments defending the idea of miracles. I don't say that in principle the world must be causally closed and bound by natural laws; only that it seems very likely, as it enough to explain an insanely huge ratio of what we already witness, and the quality of the evidence for other stuff is very low. I just finished with a quick edit to my post to be more specific, but I s…

I might agree, except I view it more productively as an argument defending the idea that the physical world can be inherently lawful ("bound by natural laws", in a very real sense) despite the common belief in miracles or magick! You don't have to renounce belief in the reality of physical laws just because you might also practice some ceremonial magick (or religious prayer, for that matter) - indeed, one can make very rigorous claims about just how much physical laws explain already.

Re: How to summon and sell your soul to Satan and other devils

#205

Post by trasz » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

onecommentman wrote: post #203

trasz wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even assuming the daemon thing would work, and that the daemons would turn out to be evil, why do you assume it’s your religion that would work, and not one of thousands others?

Poster didn’t state that this was the only religion that would work, only that this one would work. Existence proof, not uniqueness proof.

I didn’t state there would be only one religion that worked; I’ve questioned if his religion belongs to the set of religions that work.

Re: How to summon and sell your soul to Satan and other devils

#206

Post by onecommentman » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

ryanmarsh wrote: post #140

Sunday mornings on Hacker News seem to have taken a turn for the dark side.

Seems a bit Eternal September to me…online equivalent of fourteen year olds drawing pentagrams on their notebooks (I suppose nowadays putting demon stickers on their tablets).

Re: How to summon and sell your soul to Satan and other devils

#207

Post by shannifin » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 10:06 PM UTC

> In this case, selling your soul is just a sin, a pretty bad one, but still a sin. In Catholicism and some Protestant traditions, you will enter into a state of Purgatory, (or purgatory-like phase) after death where you are cleansed of sins.

Catholicism does not teach that you will necessarily enter Purgatory; if you are unrepented, into the eternal fire you will go. This isn't because Satan owns your soul, but because you rejected God, who will not force you to be cleansed against your will.

https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P2O.HTM;;catholic

Re: How to summon and sell your soul to Satan and other devils

#208

Post by 3gg » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 10:06 PM UTC

_game_of_life wrote: post #192

Lammy wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”

I forget, is your quote attributable to Michael Scott or Wayne Gretsky? You assume I've neither read the article or researched demonology. I have. All of the neopagan bullshit and demonic sigils can be traced back to obvious frauds starting in the 19th century, when occultist grifting was in vogue. This is a simplistic article on an already childish subject.

Why all the anger? I may read on different philosophies and religions that I do not fully or partially agree with, practice or believe in, yet I may find useful life lessons in each, or drive pleasure just from the act of reading. I do not regard any of them as "bullshit" just because I do not understand or share their opinions.

Re: How to summon and sell your soul to Satan and other devils

#209

Post by onecommentman » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 10:07 PM UTC

pipthepixie wrote: post #45

For me, becoming famous is similar to selling your soul, in the sense that you trade in your privacy in return for being famous and also presumably being rich too. It's like Cypher in the Matrix who wants to be reborn as an important actor in exchange for handing over keys to the Zion mainframe. Sidenote: The problem with fame is that you can't reverse it. If people know your face, then they know your face. There's n…

David Cassidy, former teen throb (yes I’m old) had a good quote, “If you want fame and fortune, try fortune first and see if that’s enough”.

Re: How to summon and sell your soul to Satan and other devils

#210

Post by 3gg » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 10:10 PM UTC

Lammy wrote: post #196

_game_of_life wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forget, is your quote attributable to Michael Scott or Wayne Gretsky? You assume I've neither read the article or researched demonology. I have. All of the neopagan bullshit and demonic sigils can be traced back to obvious frauds starting in the 19th century, when occultist grifting was in vogue. This is a simplistic article on an already childish subject.

You seem pretty caught up in your own emotions on this topic and are missing my point entirely. These stories and ideas still came from human minds, and that's the part that interests me even if I think the claims are fraudulent.

One could argue that the mere existence of a concept or an idea in someone's mind makes it real, especially so if that concept or idea has real, observable side effects for others in the "real" world. Heck, isn't this why we read science fiction or play board games? They create a mental image, the image is real in our minds.