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Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

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Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#201

Post by shaan7 »

abcd_f wrote: post #187
tehbeard wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me give you another datapoint. My old uni laptop, an Intel T4400 with 4gb RAM. Both chrome and Firefox have adblock. Never ran in to a problem with Chrome, despite the wider internet calling it a memory hog. Firefox struggled after 4/5 tabs, couldn't even playback video on YouTube or Vimeo reliably.. Don't run into these issues on desktop, and the Android version seems somewhat competent. But I've lost a lot of t…

For what it’s worth and based on a non-trivial sample set this is highly atypical.

Yep. I rarely see Firefox lagging/unresponsive (~15 pinned + 3-4 normal tabs open). In the rare chances that it does, I get an option "This web page is slowing down Firefox" which lets me kill the tab and all is well again.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#202

Post by foepys »

sleavey wrote: post #167
csmpltn wrote: post #126

I've been using Firefox daily for over 15 years now. My experience with Firefox over the last 2-3 years in particular leaves me very disappointed and frustrated. The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness. I want a browser that works, respects my privacy, stays out of my way and lets me get shit done. A…

Just to give a contrasting data point: I always see people complaining about resource consumption in Firefox in these threads, but I have honestly almost never had trouble like this and I use it for hours every day with lots of tabs and lots of rich media websites open. It happened more in the past (maybe 5+ years ago), but I am sure some of the blame in those cases would have been down to Flash. Now that I think mor…

A friend of mine has over 4,000 tabs open in Firefox at the moment - they just never close a tab, ever. Their Firefox' memory usage is only a little higher compared to mine with 3 open tabs.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#203

Post by ALotOfBees »

judge2020 wrote: post #149
eitland wrote: post #143

I have contacted local authorities twice about anti competitive behavior from Chrome. If two - three other Norwegians do the same that should start to look like an earthquake ;-) Same if ten - twenty Germans or Brits or French do the same. I would mention: 1. that some of their web properties (calendar and YouTube) have been intentionally incompatible with Firefox as evidenced by how well they work in Firefox if one…

> anti competitive behavior Have some examples? On Desktop, I don't see any, but I would get if you mean Mobile since Chrome is still the default browser there for Android.

Google Ads is practically unusable with Firefox

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#204

Post by eli »

prepend wrote: post #152
csmpltn wrote: post #126

I've been using Firefox daily for over 15 years now. My experience with Firefox over the last 2-3 years in particular leaves me very disappointed and frustrated. The constant nonsense UI redesigns that come about with every new update. The instability, and ridiculous resources consumption. The slowness and slugishness. I want a browser that works, respects my privacy, stays out of my way and lets me get shit done. A…

I used Firefox from launch until about two years ago. I stopped for reasons similar to what you listed. I’ve really enjoyed Brave as it is just a simple browser that works (and has lots of privacy features).

Firefox has its own funding issues but I don’t trust a browser that exists to support a cryptocurrency.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#205

Post by mfer »

Nextgrid wrote: post #161
mfer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t just look at power users. Google and Microsoft, for example, constantly advertise to use their browser when you visit their properties. I imagine this has an impact.

But if Firefox was genuinely better it could win via word of mouth; whether it’s power users recommending it or people having it on their work computers (because their IT mandates it) and wanting the same great browser at home. The problem is that Firefox is basically a Chrome clone at this point, all the way down to the privacy-invading features such as telemetry, so using it nowadays is more down to ideology than a…

What is chrome technically better at in a way that’s impactful to end users?

The idea that the best thing wins just because it’s the best and people will share that is flawed. It basically negates marketing and influence which is what Google’s money making model is based around. And they have been successful at that.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#206

Post by remram »

beebeepka wrote: post #192

Firefox threads are ways the same: self proclaimed power users complain about minor changes to colours and shadows. That's been going on since v4, which was what, a decade ago? So, my takeaway is that Firefox has become a punching bag for people to vent on. Sad state of affairs. Especially because it would be really hard, if not impossible, for Mozilla to shed this image

The mobile version had quite a deep change and lost a number of features, including bookmark keywords, the tab queue, reordering tabs, and about:config.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#207

Post by eightails »

kiwijamo wrote: post #92
eightails wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff doesn't always completely break -- e.g. Google forcing new Chrome-only web standards on certain sites and making other browsers like Firefox resort to alternatives which can end up being 5x slower [0], or serving a more dated design of google search on FF mobile vs Chrome. I suspect this sort of thing might be enough to make some people switch. And I have had a few experiences with sites not loading properly in…

Just out of interest I looked at Windy.com on Firefox/Linux and it looks fine? No blue/yellow banding. Wind gusts seem to show up fine. I've also had a look at the other stuff (e.g. waves, clouds, etc) which all seem to work as expected. This is with Firefox 78 LTS. Unless things have regressed in between version 78 to 90, I wonder if there is something else causing your issues?

So it seems like it was caused by FF blocking HTML5 canvas fingerprinting. Enabling that allowed it all to load correctly. I guess I must've hit disallow without thinking when I first visited, and that response was saved even after clearing cache, so that example at least is probably my fault.

I do wonder if every user would be aware that the 'Allow site to extract canvas data?' popup can break site functionality though -- its not as though there's a warning to that effect in browser.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#208

Post by eitland »

judge2020 wrote: post #149
eitland wrote: post #143

I have contacted local authorities twice about anti competitive behavior from Chrome. If two - three other Norwegians do the same that should start to look like an earthquake ;-) Same if ten - twenty Germans or Brits or French do the same. I would mention: 1. that some of their web properties (calendar and YouTube) have been intentionally incompatible with Firefox as evidenced by how well they work in Firefox if one…

> anti competitive behavior Have some examples? On Desktop, I don't see any, but I would get if you mean Mobile since Chrome is still the default browser there for Android.

Have you used Firefox with Google Docs Calendar or YouTube over the last ten years?

(Multiple more examples exist for those willing to dig: at one point the search results page would peg one processor core briefly every 30 seconds as long as you stayed on that page - and used Firefox)

Edit: and as you mention, the situation with Chrome on mobile is basically a 1-1 of IE on Windows.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#209

Post by mfer »

foepys wrote: post #181
Nextgrid wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Firefox was genuinely better it could win via word of mouth; whether it’s power users recommending it or people having it on their work computers (because their IT mandates it) and wanting the same great browser at home. The problem is that Firefox is basically a Chrome clone at this point, all the way down to the privacy-invading features such as telemetry, so using it nowadays is more down to ideology than a…

How could Mozilla ever compete in technical merit nowadays? Google is siphoning nearly all talent by paying them insanely huge amounts of money. Web is part of Google's core business and they will pour every little penny into it if it means they can be one step ahead and force others to follow them. How can Mozilla, a non-profit, compete with that? Even freaking Microsoft gave up! I'm insanely impressed with Mozilla…

Be useful to end users. Differentiate on that.

Useful to people can be understood and is a selling point. What is technical merit? Some CS insider form of bragging rights?

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#210

Post by gifnamething »

Nextgrid wrote: post #161
mfer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t just look at power users. Google and Microsoft, for example, constantly advertise to use their browser when you visit their properties. I imagine this has an impact.

But if Firefox was genuinely better it could win via word of mouth; whether it’s power users recommending it or people having it on their work computers (because their IT mandates it) and wanting the same great browser at home. The problem is that Firefox is basically a Chrome clone at this point, all the way down to the privacy-invading features such as telemetry, so using it nowadays is more down to ideology than a…

>telemetry

Maybe they're more likely to cater to users who don't turn off the method they use to decide what to cater to.

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