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Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

nature.com

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Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#201

Post by TeMPOraL »

adrianN wrote: post #149
killingtime74 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should ask for sources instead. Authority is the wrong thing to trust in science

Unless you have a background in immunology the sources are probably not terrible useful to you.

Oh, they will be, but in the opposite way to what GP seems to want. That is, I'd look at the sources as further sources of authority :). E.g. a bunch of papers from multiple teams, with some published by high-profile journals or authored by well-known researchers, indicates it's relatively safe to trust their conclusions. A bunch of papers from the same few people who seem to want to push their pet theory indicates low trustworthiness and need for independent verification.

Unless you've studied the domain in question in depth, it's not like you could use the citations in any other way. Trust, as a heuristic, is fundamental to advanced research as much as it is for everything else in society.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#202

Post by miked85 »

CorrectHorseBat wrote: post #176
miked85 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But their choices affect me If you and your family get vaccinated, how do their choices affect you?

Vaccines are not 100% effective, some people cannot take the vaccine (known allergic reactions, immunocompromised, ...) and continued spread of the virus can create new mutations.

It isn't 100%, no. But I am not sure what you are suggesting then.

If you get the vaccine and are still scared and angry at people that may not have received it, there aren't many options for you aside from indefinite total lock-down.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#203

Post by o-__-o »

brigandish wrote: post #174
greg5green wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Natural exposure induces a dominant Ab response against the nucleocapsid protein (NP), but since NP is not in the vaccine, there is no vaccine induced response against it. In this way vaccinated people who had a prior natural exposure can be classified because they have Abs to NP." >Simply looking at one aspect of immunity - detectable antibodies in the blood - is a very incomplete way of looking at the overall leve…

They wrote: > The immune response developed to our vaccines is quite specific - they only generate the spike protein - which leads to a much less diverse response than a natural infection. Which tells me that your response of: > You seem to have no idea what you are reading. Of course vaccines aren't going to have antibodies against the nucleocapsid -- they only generate antibodies against the spike! is wholly inappr…

The N protein is evasive, I do not believe your body can mount an effective (neutralizing antibodies) defense. But I guess you are right, your body can still fight it which is overall better than just fighting off the virus with vaccine protection

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#204

Post by Spare_account »

reissbaker wrote: post #196
Spare_account wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but it's because we update them every year. OK, this is the part I wasn't aware of. I assumed (dangerous, I know) that each year's 'new' flu vaccine was really just a new 'blend' of existing proven vaccines, for the most prevalent strains that year. Edited to remove badly conceived question. New Question: How often do we have to develop novel vaccines for new Flu variants?

From this [1] Wikipedia article it looks like there aren't new strains every year, but generally every few years there will be a new variant that replaces an older variant in the mix. The oldest variant currently in flu vaccines is from 2013, and the newest is from 2019. That being said, the process generally doesn't change — you still grow and kill (or grow and weaken) viruses the same way, you just start from a dif…

Thanks for this

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#205

Post by advanced-DnD »

rivo wrote: post #133
simonCGN wrote: post #65

It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.

In Germany, almost everyone refers to it as the Biontech vaccine. For obvious reasons. I would even go so far as to say that most people here don't realize it's the same as the "Pfizer vaccine". (On the other hand, the Moderna vaccine is referred to as the "Moderna vaccine".)

In Germany BioNTech also involved in the production.. so it is also fair to call it as that..

But I'm a tad annoyed that they pronounce it "Bion-Tech" rather than "Bio-N-Tech", the latter was the intended pronunciation by the owners, I think.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#206

Post by o-__-o »

cmckn wrote: post #48
selcuka wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it the spike protein that is usually different between these variants? In that case antibodies that target a different part should even be more effective.

The vaccines target specific (and multiple) regions of the spike protein, so a given mutation of the protein is not likely to make a vaccine null and void (hence the current success of the vaccines against variants). A "natural" COVID infection could lead to similar protection, or less; but it's not likely that a natural infection gives you some kind of AAA protection. Being infected can also hurt you, after all. The…

20 million people tested positive before vaccines became abundant. Let’s stay on the topic of those people protection levels :)

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#207

Post by o-__-o »

ghc wrote: post #3
o-__-o wrote: post #2

So, then I would assume this means people with antibodies from the initial wave of infections are also protected

Interestingly, the mRNA vaccines produce superior immunity compared to getting infected, due mainly to the two dose regimen. For similarly long-lasting natural immunity you'd probably need to get infected with covid twice.

What about the probability from having had a very bad infection?

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#208

Post by o-__-o »

senectus1 wrote: post #12
o-__-o wrote: post #2

So, then I would assume this means people with antibodies from the initial wave of infections are also protected

the big diff between a vaccine and a previous infection is that the vaccine doesn't damage your body in the process of training your body to attack it. Covid can wreck havoc on your body and leave it in a weaker state.

20 million people already had the virus. I’m one of them. Are we the red headed step child that we have forgotten about?

Let me change the perspective: when I get the flu because I stupidly did not get the flu shot that year, I don’t rush out and get the flu shot after the fact. I’m wondering why I would do the same with this vaccine when there are lots of evidence that first rounders are not likely to be infected even by variants (assuming low viral load)

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#209

Post by refurb »

Avalaxy wrote: post #189
simonCGN wrote: post #65

It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.

Same for the Janssen vaccine (from the Netherlands), which is called Johnson & Johnson vaccine everywhere.

That's because Janssen is a wholly owned subsidiary of J&J.
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