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Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

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Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#201

Post by ithkuil »

pvtmert wrote: post #192

I really don't understand why is this fuss. TBH docker-on-mac is not that good. That is why I've most minimal config and just using to have some 'linux' time to time. What I use is `docker context` command or DOCKER_HOST=ssh://user@host pattern. env-var is more convenient for 'ephemeral' hosts. (It uses your own SSH-key to connect to host) And for static hosts (like staging machines) I use context. Plus it uses nativ…

Docker for mac is slow that's true, but seamless filesystem and network forwarding means that exactly the same instructions work for linux and mac team mates

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#202

Post by headmelted »

ogre_codes wrote: post #13

This link is a little confusing because the top comment and much of the conversation is talking about the DTK which was based on the much older A12X CPU and not the M1. As far as I can tell, the M1 does have virtualization support, Docker just isn't ported yet. Update: Also, from Apple docs it seems like you won't be able to run emulation and virtualization in the same process. So you can run x86 Mac apps, but it's l…

This will become less of a problem over time as more M1’s make it into the wild.

What gives me pause moreso than this is the absence of the touchscreen and Face ID, which are very obviously coming in the next refresh (iPad app support without touch?).

As impressive as the new MacBooks are, they’re very clearly a stopgap solution so as not to replace everything all at once.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#203

Post by innocenat »

penguin_booze wrote: post #198

I'm a bit lost. I was under the impression that Docker (and containerisation in general) works based on kernel namespaces, which, IIUC, is a way to instantiating distinct subsystems in the kernel, on demand. What does hardware support for virtualization have to do with it? I mean, for VMWare or VirtuaBox, yes, I can imagine; but does that matter for Docker? Can someone explain?

It works as you understand on Linux. For Windows and macOS, Docker use virtualisation to do contenatisation on Linux kernel instead.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#204

Post by Cthulhu_ »

headmelted wrote: post #202
ogre_codes wrote: post #13

This link is a little confusing because the top comment and much of the conversation is talking about the DTK which was based on the much older A12X CPU and not the M1. As far as I can tell, the M1 does have virtualization support, Docker just isn't ported yet. Update: Also, from Apple docs it seems like you won't be able to run emulation and virtualization in the same process. So you can run x86 Mac apps, but it's l…

This will become less of a problem over time as more M1’s make it into the wild. What gives me pause moreso than this is the absence of the touchscreen and Face ID, which are very obviously coming in the next refresh (iPad app support without touch?). As impressive as the new MacBooks are, they’re very clearly a stopgap solution so as not to replace everything all at once.

> As impressive as the new MacBooks are, they’re very clearly a stopgap solution so as not to replace everything all at once.

I agree, but at the same time, they pushed it pretty hard by not just doing an Air with the chip like I thought they would, but putting it in a Pro as well (with, according to the early benchmarks I've seen, barely any performance difference. I mean they could at least have put two of them in there)

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#206

Post by ithkuil »

cercatrova wrote: post #150
vlovich123 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think the bigger problems are drivers & secure boot rather than just instructions. M1 is a regular ARM processor so existing backends at a minimum would work fine even if they're not fully optimized (+ I would be a bit surprised if the M1 support for LLVM isn't upstreamed).

Is that really true that M1 is just an ARM processor? I've heard the difficulty in emulating it is due to Apple specific things, whether they be drivers or new instructions.

It's an asymmetrical situation:

If you have code that makes use of custom instructions, even if only sprinkled in a few places, the emulator must support them.

If you have a cpu with those extra instructions that is otherwise backwards compatible, you can run code that doesn't make use of such instructions just fine (of course, you won't benefit from the functionality/performance offered by those new instructions)

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#207

Post by panpanna »

skoczko wrote: post #190

I've been holding off on upgrading my MBP13 for a few years now because Apple was painfully slow to refresh it. I was ready to order the model that came out in May (with 32GB RAM) but then the rumour about ARM hit the internets so I kept waiting. Now (I guess always?), it's clear that Apple Silicon is not going to be a comfortable dev environment, at lest not for some and not for a while. JDK macos/aarch64 port is st…

All this trouble so you can stay with apple?

Unless you are an ios dev, why??

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#209

Post by floatingatoll »

ogre_codes wrote: post #170
floatingatoll wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did the right thing. This is not the right time for software developers to experiment with Apple Silicon, unless they’re willing to help develop software to work with Apple Silicon.

Largely depends on what kind of software developer you are. Not all developers rely on x86. Our app is React/ Typescript and we don't use Docker/ x86 virtualization at all. I do need MySQL and a few other tools, but I don't expect they will be long coming (or maybe already running in Homebrew is there Homebrew ARM?) If you make your living writing Mac or iOS software, this is a gift. Might be worth waiting for the ne…

I would definitely not take for granted that you’ll be able to develop such things on the M1 platform without encountering M1 platform obstacles in unexpected corners of the tool chains for the next thirty days. It might be fine, but if it’s not, you’re out of luck until it is.

Re: Docker fails to launch on Apple Silicon

#210

Post by jillesvangurp »

pvtmert wrote: post #192

I really don't understand why is this fuss. TBH docker-on-mac is not that good. That is why I've most minimal config and just using to have some 'linux' time to time. What I use is `docker context` command or DOCKER_HOST=ssh://user@host pattern. env-var is more convenient for 'ephemeral' hosts. (It uses your own SSH-key to connect to host) And for static hosts (like staging machines) I use context. Plus it uses nativ…

docker is part of the workflow of a lot teams. Simply not optional for a lot of backend teams to have it around.

The mac version is not perfect but I've used it for years without major headaches. I regularly run all sorts of middleware, build tooling, etc. using it.

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