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Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

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Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#201

Post by danudey »

askl56 wrote: post #89
0x402DF854 wrote: post #23

From a preliminary statement of Epic's motion: > Just over two weeks ago, Apple’s CEO Tim Cook was asked during a Congressional hearing whether Apple has “ever retaliated against or disadvantaged a developer who went public about their frustrations with the App Store”. Mr. Cook testified, “We do not retaliate or bully people. It’s strongly against our company culture.”

https://twitter.com/slasher/status/1295434558112960519?s=21 This may have consequences for Unreal Engine too. Without a dev account, how can they maintain it?

They can still build and test on-device, they just won't be able to publish anything to the app store.

Specifically, in XCode, they can add an Apple ID (any Apple ID) and use that to build on a device.[1] This creates a "personal team"[2] which you can use to test on your devices.

[1] https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/devaf282080a [2] https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/dev17411c009

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#202

Post by aaomidi »

woofie11 wrote: post #156
ArchOversight wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't retaliation though for Epic going on Twitter and being angry about the App Store practices, or the situation like Hey where the was a lot of press and negativity. Epic breached the terms of the agreement for their app, so their app was removed from the App Store. Other than needing to fix their app to no longer be in violation of the guidelines, they could have cured that breach of the contract. Instead Ep…

A one-sided agreement containing a retaliation clause, followed by exercising that clause, is retaliation. Say you're desperate and need water in a crisis, and I offer you some, but only if you sign an agreement which gives you water, but says I can punch you in the face whenever you say something I don't like. Say you say something I don't like, and I punch you in the face. Did I just retaliate? Or did the contract…

The idea that "it was in the contract that Epic agreed to" is ridiculous. It wasn't a contract that Epic could've disagreed to.

This is the same for end users, but we don't have the power to start a lawsuit against Apple.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#203

Post by aaomidi »

fatbird wrote: post #172
pmontra wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then customers that want that product go to another store chain. This makes stores think twice before banning some products or brands. There is only one store in iOS country.

But there are several stores in mobile country, and more again in platform country. Drawing the boundary of the market around iOS seems circular. "They're a monopoly because they have 100% of the market share on the market that's specific to them."

Because the cost of going to another platform is far higher than the cost of going to another physical store.

You don't invest ~$1000 to go to a physical store.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#204

Post by klmadfejno »

Animats wrote: post #149

Note that this applies to Mac systems, not just IOS. Apple is trying to prevent Unreal Engine from working on any Apple-controlled platform. So, if you're a gamer or a game developer, do not buy a Mac . Developers now using Macs need to be planning an exit strategy.

The engine is open source isn't it? They can't stop you from downloading the source and compiling it, right?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#205

Post by aaomidi »

pneill wrote: post #142
throwaw4y-plate wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to which no alternative is permitted.

Correct. And this is not illegal. Using the store analogy - when you purchase at a store, the store has a markup on the product (usually 40%) - you cannot demand the store take a different markup because a store down the street is selling it for less, you can't set up a sign in the store telling patrons they can get a better deal down the road, and you can't say you want to pay in a particular currency because you do…

> And this is not illegal.

Maybe it should be. This isn't just about Apple. It's about all e-waste as well.

The idea that I can't do anything with a perfectly workable device once the company providing software to it cuts it off is ridiculous.

How much waste are we producing because we think the company that made a physical device should have 100% say on what happens on said physical device?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#206

Post by Jonnax »

jdminhbg wrote: post #114
Jonnax wrote: post #62

I don't understand the comparisons to game consoles. You buy an Xbox or a playstation, and it's a game playing machine. It just plays video games. You buy a mobile phone. And it's a general computing device. It's very much arguable that it's necessary for modern life.

The only thing that makes a game console only a game playing machine is that it is limited by its producer. All the hardware is there for it to be a general computing device. So when you spool this argument out, it becomes: Google/Apple don't hobble their devices as much as Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo do, therefore Google/Apple should have to open them up more and Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo should not.

Well it's what it is up front. A games consoles plays games and streams some video.

A mobile phone is a camera, gps, web browser, telephone, messaging, food delivery, music listening, video watching, taxi calling, banking tool etc etc etc device.

living your life, Apple and Google get 30% of your transactions.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#207

Post by senko »

ascagnel_ wrote: post #186
ProAm wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a developer who deliberately violated the policies Are you talking about Netflix?

I'm unaware of any current legal action Netflix is taking against Apple.

That's not what the parent said.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#209

Post by Keyframe »

elicash wrote: post #31
woofie11 wrote: post #2

This clearly and unambiguously crosses the line into abuse of market power. Apple's actions before? Maybe? Sort of? Apple needed that 30 percent cut to monitor for fraud and quality or something, going above-and-beyond other payment processors. This? This has absolutely no basis in anything. It's simple retaliation designed to kneecap Epic from Apple's dominant control of a market. Apple can refuse to let Epic releas…

I personally thought they were already in abuse of market power. But on this latest development, I want to hear Apple's argument first. That said, I didn't find their argument on the first action compelling so not optimistic. But maybe they discovered some abuse, for one random, made-up example -- my point isn't to trust Apple but just to see what the reasoning is first. This tweet doesn't say if they were given any…

Apple’s argument was what was in their TOS and acting on it. I don’t know what they would say apart from that? Open question now is whether their TOS violates any law, since law > TOS.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#210

Post by m-p-3 »

TylerE wrote: post #8
woofie11 wrote: post #2

This clearly and unambiguously crosses the line into abuse of market power. Apple's actions before? Maybe? Sort of? Apple needed that 30 percent cut to monitor for fraud and quality or something, going above-and-beyond other payment processors. This? This has absolutely no basis in anything. It's simple retaliation designed to kneecap Epic from Apple's dominant control of a market. Apple can refuse to let Epic releas…

Companies shouldn't be allowed to fire customers that blatantly break rules the customer agreed to?

A company that have a dominant position in a large ecosystem and can make or break an entire business model?
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