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Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

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201–210 of 217 posts

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about whether or not they get arrested. This is about certain ground rules and principles that the government must always uphold, even against unprincipled opponents. Federal law enforcement officers, dressed in camo gear and without any identifying insignia, arresting and covering the faces of alleged rioters and stuffing them into unmarked vehicles and taking them God-knows-where is absolutely unacceptab…

The uniforms in the videos clearly say "POLICE" on them. According to the people released, they were read their Miranda rights - and who cares that they are dressed in camo and using unmarked cars? As long as the suspect is put before a judge, I don't see the issue.

So, uh, are they police?

I mean, they do seem to be sworn law enforcement, I just wonder if they are operating under any sort of valid remit that would make it reasonable to call them police.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#202
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d suggest the fair middle ground is to loosen state power by defunding police departments and reinvesting in communities. I keep seeing this sentiment voiced, but from a ground level looking up it comes off as closeminded because it implies that “riots” and “protesting” are different things. The reality is no one in portland tried to burn down the justice center, if they did they would be shot on sight. Whats happe…

> That’s a noble endeavor, no matter the means. America’s founded on white supremacy, and America’s maintained white supremacy. That's fair. But understand that not everyone agrees with this, and will be willing to do what it takes to defend their way of life. What does the end-game look like?

The people holding on to the past lose. It's not complicated.

Hopefully they don't use a bunch of violence in the process.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carpeting is treated with fire retardant. Interior structures are built to fire code. Solid wood is flammable, yes, but difficult to ignite. Treated oak has even been used as a spacecraft re-entry heat shield - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanhui_Shi_Weixing . After the Oklahoma City bombing, federal buildings were made more resistant to terrorist attacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_building…

I’m not sure why you are arguing this. Arson is a horrible crime and the fact that it is being attempted towards fire resistant buildings (according to you at least, I’m not convinced) doesn’t matter. This makes me wonder if you also have a theory about why 9/11 towers couldn’t have fallen on their own...

Yikes, let's break apart your claims.

Why am I arguing this? Your initial claim, that protestors are trying to burn down the federal courthouse, is totally unsubstantiated and smells like bullshit. It's worth arguing against because it paints protestors as violent agitators.

The horror of arson does not excuse extrajudicial precrime tactics. In fact, it is reasonably well-argued that no crime can excuse extrajudicial tactics, simply because committing crimes in the case of seeking justice for crimes will lead to never-ending criminal acts.

By what evidence are you not convinced that these buildings are fire-resistant? The positive circumstantial evidence is that, from both an encyclopedic source and firsthand hearsay, the building is composed of quarried stone, steel, concrete, marble, and bronze. The negative circumstantial evidence that you've brought up, that the office-interior decor may ignite and that the building may burn out from the inside, is not just speculative, but doesn't meet the original criterion: The building would not burn down just because it has fire damage inside. Even worse, once again your unfamiliarity with the building hurts, because you don't know about the marbled entryways and stonework walls, which don't have enough wood in them to sustain fire damage.

And then you bring up 9/11. What a red herring. What a non sequitur.

Finally, you failed to address a sibling point: That after the Oklahoma City bombing in the 90s, the Feds stepped up their stance on defending federal public buildings like courthouses. We are not really exaggerating the level to which these buildings have been secured. Again, this is something that you may have to visit and see for yourself to grok.

Please watch less Fox News, or whatever it is that is rotting your arguments in this way.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#204

I'm surprised that someone hasn't been shot yet. Unmarked camouflage officers in unmarked vans that do not identify themselves as officers sounds like they might get shot at if they try detaining the wrong person.

They aren't unmarked - their camouflage uniform clearly says "POLICE" on the front. To be clear, do not shoot someone with POLICE written on their uniform, or even anyone you suspect might be a police officer, because you will spend the rest of your life in jail.

They also have agency patches on — there's a lot of misinformation being spread about them being unidentified.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah,very illuminating. It's amazing how everyone who caused property damage was a "violent anarchist."

Have you seen pictures from Portland? It looks like the site of a third-world battle field. I'm sure it sounds like minor property damage, but when you see what's happening, it's not as minor as you think. Remember, these are the folks that destroyed the elk statue for some reason. Nobody is really talking about the fact that these riots have been going on for more than a month, so people don't know how bad it is.

Yes but that elk was racist. All elk are bastards.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#206
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these minivans is a rational and smart move (amoral, but that's another story). The protest is snowballing and there's not enough police-like forces that blindly support the current regime. The administration understands that victory loves preparation and starts preparing now: they normalize the minivans, so people get used to them and won't question this later when millions of such minivans show up on street…

Related: A dark green Ford Falcon will still make Argentinians uneasy : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_(Argentina)

The "resistance" LARPers are gradually memeing death squads into existence.

It's not a second Trump administration that anyone should be worried about.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#207

Secret police snatching people off the street in unmarked vehicles is 100% police state / gestapo behavior. No one should be OK with it.

My wife chided me saying "can we not go to Nazis right away?", so I corrected to the Stasi, or the KGB. I'm appalled. I live in a suburb of Portland. The worst that can be said about what's going on here is there's a lot of graffiti. I don't know how anyone can claim that The US retains some special status of freedom now.

Whites are way too obsessed with Weimar and the Russian Revolution / USSR (I wonder why).

The more relevant analogues are Latin American ones. We're becoming Brazil, not Nazi German or Soviet Russia.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#208
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the uniforms clearly say "POLICE" on them.

Are they police, though? I was under the impression that federal agents are not police? Should they not identify as whatever agency they are? I would even imagine (but I could be wildly wrong about this) that for example an FBI agent is not allowed to identify as a police officer?

Federal agents often wear "Police" because that is the most well recognized word to indicate law enforcement - and works in multiple languages.

The point is to ensure that arrestees know they are law enforcement.

There is no legal requirement to indicate they are police, let alone the specific department they are in. An undercover officer can arrest someone without any badge or marking at all.

> an FBI agent is not allowed to identify as a police officer?

I don't know what gave you that impression. They are law enforcement officers with the jurisdiction to arrest anywhere in the US.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a stupid argument. Anyone can buy any easily visible publicly recognizable sign. I fail to see how this badge is insufficient in a potentially aggressive situation.

So let's change the situation then. If someone was trying to kick in your door wearing generic fatigues and a patch that says 'POLICE' while refusing to identify themselves, would you let them in? I'm assuming that would be sufficient identity for you to agree that they are in fact police and they have a sufficient reason to kick in your door.

Yes, absolutely, and so should you if you're smart.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#210
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"decline to identify themselves as law enforcement" while wearing agency patches, and a patch that reads "police"?

Can you point to anything that says they're identifying which agency they're with via "agency patches"? That's not mentioned in the article. Also, having "police" on their uniforms is meaningless. If you want to know where they disappeared someone to, are you going to look up "police" in the phone book and give them a call? Give me a break.

i was talking more about the shoulder patches, but the video is too low res to make out the details of the patches
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