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Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

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Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#171

Post by Thetawaves »

bleah1000 wrote: post #167
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah,very illuminating. It's amazing how everyone who caused property damage was a "violent anarchist."

Have you seen pictures from Portland? It looks like the site of a third-world battle field. I'm sure it sounds like minor property damage, but when you see what's happening, it's not as minor as you think. Remember, these are the folks that destroyed the elk statue for some reason. Nobody is really talking about the fact that these riots have been going on for more than a month, so people don't know how bad it is.

Will nobody think of the elk? Thats a fine molehill you've got there.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#172

Post by fzeroracer »

orwin wrote: post #157
eanzenberg wrote: post #75

Antifa was declared a terrorist organization. They were seen as co-opting a movement, instigating with violence throughout the country, especially in poor neighborhoods, and attempting to start a race-war. However you may feel about the designation, the means to stop them are deemed serious enough to warrant these measures.

> Antifa was declared a terrorist organization. Is this true? Was the identity right declared a terrorist organization as well? Did "antifa" killed someone in the US? (Genuinely asking, i stopped following the new around may). Because I will tell you that Antifa in europe is the leftist equivalent of the identity right (neonazis groups and white supremacists). So if antifa as a whole is deemed a terrorist organisatio…

No. There's been violence for sure, but 'antifa' as people claim have no murdered anyone nor caused any mass murders. Trump has said that he will declare them a terrorist group however.

The great irony of this all is that we have direct examples of the alt-right straight up murdering people during protests. Like Heather Heyer. But the Unite the Right rally 'wasn't responsible', it was just some rogue person totally unrelated to the alt-right (despite them cheering it on).

During these events, all protesters are considered rioters and thus are considered criminals. But during Unite the Right, not all protesters are considered neo-nazis despite marching with neo-nazis. Guilt by association for BLM, and then 'fine people on both sides' for neo-nazis.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#173

Post by eesmith »

koheripbal wrote: post #133
Kednicma wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would they do it? Heck, how would you do it? This isn't idle banter, nor am I trolling for a ban or an FBI watchlist. The federal courthouse building [0] is one of several stone buildings downtown, built out of massive blocks of stone on the outside, with a core of steel and concrete. This building is basically a block-sized stone. I've been inside it a few times. I would not characterize it as flammable in the s…

The exterior walls are stone - the entire interior and roof are wood, as well as most the interior walls, floors, ceilings, and furniture/carpeting. It is absolutely flammable.

Carpeting is treated with fire retardant. Interior structures are built to fire code. Solid wood is flammable, yes, but difficult to ignite. Treated oak has even been used as a spacecraft re-entry heat shield - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanhui_Shi_Weixing .

After the Oklahoma City bombing, federal buildings were made more resistant to terrorist attacks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_building... says Federal courts are Level IV, or one below the Pentagon. Verified with https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GAOREPORTS-T-GGD-98-141/... .

If it's so easy to ignite that a few firework mortars can set it ablaze, then the US federal building security system is a joke just waiting for the next McVeigh and Nichols.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#174

Post by LurkersWillLurk »

koheripbal wrote: post #131
LurkersWillLurk wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about whether or not they get arrested. This is about certain ground rules and principles that the government must always uphold, even against unprincipled opponents. Federal law enforcement officers, dressed in camo gear and without any identifying insignia, arresting and covering the faces of alleged rioters and stuffing them into unmarked vehicles and taking them God-knows-where is absolutely unacceptab…

The uniforms in the videos clearly say "POLICE" on them. According to the people released, they were read their Miranda rights - and who cares that they are dressed in camo and using unmarked cars? As long as the suspect is put before a judge, I don't see the issue.

A tiny amount of "police" text isn't worth much of anything. There is absolutely no defensible reason to hide the agency patch and badge number of every individual officer on the ground. There is absolutely no defensible reason to tie beanbags around the faces of arrestees. There is absolutely no defensible reason for the police to put arrestees into unmarked vehicles.

There is no way of ascertaining exactly who these federal agents are. This precludes court redress and is unacceptable.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#175

Post by kyleee »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #142
koheripbal wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. These (mostly teenagers) want change that most people don't want. That is why the process doesn't work for them - because they are the minority opinion. So that's why they resort to violence.

> mostly teenagers [citation needed] > want change that most people don't want [citation needed]

probably closer to 18 - 34 demo based on looking over a number of arrest records. WRT the 2nd part, look up general polling for defunding the police, or general sentiment for communism

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#176

Post by kyleee »

gmantg wrote: post #81
xenadu02 wrote: post #22

Secret police snatching people off the street in unmarked vehicles is 100% police state / gestapo behavior. No one should be OK with it.

I think these minivans is a rational and smart move (amoral, but that's another story). The protest is snowballing and there's not enough police-like forces that blindly support the current regime. The administration understands that victory loves preparation and starts preparing now: they normalize the minivans, so people get used to them and won't question this later when millions of such minivans show up on street…

"won't question this later when millions of such minivans show up on streets."

Is this a new conspiracy theory similar to the old republican black helicopters and fema camps one?

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#177

Post by Balgair »

gmantg wrote: post #81
xenadu02 wrote: post #22

Secret police snatching people off the street in unmarked vehicles is 100% police state / gestapo behavior. No one should be OK with it.

I think these minivans is a rational and smart move (amoral, but that's another story). The protest is snowballing and there's not enough police-like forces that blindly support the current regime. The administration understands that victory loves preparation and starts preparing now: they normalize the minivans, so people get used to them and won't question this later when millions of such minivans show up on street…

Related: A dark green Ford Falcon will still make Argentinians uneasy : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Falcon_(Argentina)

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#178

Post by kyleee »

LurkersWillLurk wrote: post #174
koheripbal wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uniforms in the videos clearly say "POLICE" on them. According to the people released, they were read their Miranda rights - and who cares that they are dressed in camo and using unmarked cars? As long as the suspect is put before a judge, I don't see the issue.

A tiny amount of "police" text isn't worth much of anything. There is absolutely no defensible reason to hide the agency patch and badge number of every individual officer on the ground. There is absolutely no defensible reason to tie beanbags around the faces of arrestees. There is absolutely no defensible reason for the police to put arrestees into unmarked vehicles. There is no way of ascertaining exactly who thes…

They have agency patches on too, just for the sake of truth

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#179

Post by Balgair »

kyleee wrote: post #176
gmantg wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these minivans is a rational and smart move (amoral, but that's another story). The protest is snowballing and there's not enough police-like forces that blindly support the current regime. The administration understands that victory loves preparation and starts preparing now: they normalize the minivans, so people get used to them and won't question this later when millions of such minivans show up on street…

"won't question this later when millions of such minivans show up on streets." Is this a new conspiracy theory similar to the old republican black helicopters and fema camps one?

It's not a theory.

This occurred with an actual minivan.

Re: Oregon, Journalists Sue U.S. over Portland Arrests, Violence

#180

Post by kyleee »

alexose wrote: post #125
cwhiz wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the article and dial back the absurd hyperbole.

I wouldn't call it hyperbole. Men in fatigues, who decline to identify themselves as law enforcement, are grabbing protesters off the streets and putting them in unmarked minivans. There are videos of this. From the article: > On July 12 a peaceful protester was struck in the head with an “impact weapon” and sustained severe injuries, according to the AG’s office. On Thursday, it says, “an unmarked minivan with under…

"decline to identify themselves as law enforcement"

while wearing agency patches, and a patch that reads "police"?

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