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The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

theatlantic.com

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Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#201

Post by hinkley »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #83

Ya'll use University wrong. The classes, etc. ... whatever! During my time at Uni, I: * designed a demonstrator car frame to show off a bunch of new manufacturing techniques, which was actually built in the end * was part of a team who tested a new type of fiber optical vibration sensor on a sounding rocket * worked with a PhD student on developing a sensor to measure water flow through a tank to validate his simulat…

I went to a state school that still had one of the best CS programs around. Some decent teachers, a few great ones (and some noteworthy awful ones), and tons of under-subscribed hardware, and self-starters bouncing ideas off of each other.

Most of the time you could find an unused computer to work on your own thing. Frequently you could find several contiguous ones for you and some friends. Some of the most capable people in my class were pulling B-C grades because they spent so much time working on their own projects instead of cramming for tests.

I had hardware problems for four classes, but only one of those was a CS class, and by then I'd written enough code that I'd just shell into a machine to get a rough draft to compile, then spend a couple hours in front of the box debugging. Get an internship or programming job on campus, kids. Programming assignments are a lot easier once you've written real code.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#202

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

stevefan1999 wrote: post #15

I think vocational education could have been better conveyed online, but with perfect pre-recording and editing. Coursera and Edx are a good example for a forerunner though. As a college student myself, this year, this semester is the worst for me -- I felt really lazy without any faith to keep me going, that with face-to-face activity I feel like I'm motivated to engage. But I hope this semester really is the except…

> "I think vocational education could have been better conveyed online, but with perfect pre-recording and editing. Coursera and Edx are a good example for a forerunner though."

Completion rates for Coursera and similar online courses are notoriously poor. See, for example, https://www.insidehighered.com/digital-learning/article/2019...

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#203

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

Spooky23 wrote: post #142
dougmwne wrote: post #16

I was having another one of those moments yesterday where I was questioning the value of higher education while reading a HN thread about teaching yourself CS. There was a healthy debate about whether the typical CS curriculum helps a modern software engineer at all. Some thought the degree was stuck back in the 70's. Others thought there was value, but had trouble articulating it. It seems that when the information…

Many of these arguments boil down to "those damn lazy kids these day". Being in a learning focused environment has value. I have a dual CS/History bachelor's degree. The analysis/rhetoric and writing skills that I built with the History side of my education are at least as valuable to me as the CS skillsets. I'd go back and challenge original implication of the article, that university is absurd, like a CD. Character…

I just ripped a new CD yesterday. I get a holistic album experience with all pregaps preserved. Something streaming and digital downloads won't provide.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#204

Post by abvdasker »

empath75 wrote: post #196
abvdasker wrote: post #191

This is a pretty bad take. The article doesn't consider the numerous disciplines like chemistry, biology or physics for which often expensive physical resources, equipment and facilities are a necessity — really any course of study with a significant amount of time spent in a laboratory. Call me paranoid, but I am very suspicious of the voices pushing for all-digital education. Of the students whom I know, none want…

> It's not what they signed up for, and many feel shortchanged by their universities continuing to charge them tuition fees for a subpar learning experience post-COVID. As soon as they convince employers that a digital education is a reasonable substitute for in person classes, the traditional university will be over. Why would you put yourself into $100k worth of debt for a piece of paper when you can get the same p…

What the students I've talked to are saying is, "why put ourselves into $100k worth of debt for online-only classes?" If they're supposed to be doing lab work, why pay any money at all for a class without it? Tuition prices are unchanged even though higher education has temporarily transitioned to remote-only.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#205

Post by turbinerneiter »

itronitron wrote: post #158
turbinerneiter wrote: post #83

Ya'll use University wrong. The classes, etc. ... whatever! During my time at Uni, I: * designed a demonstrator car frame to show off a bunch of new manufacturing techniques, which was actually built in the end * was part of a team who tested a new type of fiber optical vibration sensor on a sounding rocket * worked with a PhD student on developing a sensor to measure water flow through a tank to validate his simulat…

I'm guessing that for each of your bullet points listed you needed some initial set of technical skills, and that you had those skills before even arriving at University (otherwise the first semesters would not have been wasted.) I am curious whether there were any classes that you feel were more educational than these work experiences.

I went to a technical high school, so I definitely came prepared, and I also learned a lot of useful skills during all my semesters in classes.

I didn't mean that the classes were a waste of time, but I wish I had started doing extracurricular stuff earlier.

It is true that the clubs usually do not have a lot of use for the 1. Semester people, as they don't have a lot of skills yet, but the bigger clubs have their own "course" system and will definitely invest in helping you develop.

I actually think all my classes were useful and I am happy I had them. It just that they were not what was fun, motivating and special about my time at uni.

My space engineering class was taught by an actual astronaut, so that was a definite highlight.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#206

Post by mjburgess »

throwawaygh wrote: post #185
mjburgess wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found that academics often find their dependence on students embarrassing, and the idea of earning befuddling. The university is a kind of "eternal adolescence" which promised to provide dysfunctional high-IQs without the trappings of such obligations. With the marketization of education, academics find themselves obligated to their students (how undignified!) and for the first time needing to justify their wo…

IDK what university you're talking about. When I was a PhD student, I worked 60 to 80 hour weeks doing research and teaching. My advisor brought in much more grant money than was spent on our lab equipment/salaries (and worked even hard than we did!) Our lab ran a (pretty healthy) profit, even before considering tuition and patent royalties. I spent some time teaching. Again, 60 hour weeks and all of my advisees land…

humanities departments.

Most science and engineering depts have been doing research justification, financing, hiring from industry, etc. for awhile.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#207

Post by dpoochieni »

throwawaygh wrote: post #149
funcDropShadow wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point here, however, is what University is for all people Traditionally, that was not true and still is not true in places like Germany. A university is the place where you can get the highest education of a field, or ideally where you study a field on your own. Both requires a lot of prerequisites that not everybody fulfills. I am talking about knowledge, ability to learn although something is not flashy, and…

I really like the German higher education system. Unfortunately, the USA conflates universities and applied universities. Most people who go to university in the USA, go to what would be closer to a Fachhochschule. Smaller colleges and universities that don't grant PhDs and whose professors have research output is closer to "write a paper in the summer" than "run a research lab". Most people who have negative views t…

What not to love, they begin the class segregation early. Wait what? Guess they are that way after centuries of pretty authoritarian governments. Every one knows their place /s

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#208

Post by pjc50 »

michaelt wrote: post #159
pjc50 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> eradicate racism is to allow racists and anti-racists to have open Lincoln-Douglas style debates on college campuses: allow racists to explain their ideas Allow people to point at one of the nonwhite people in the audience and say, "I don't think this person belongs in the country, who's with me?" Because that's what it is: for one side, it's a debate with no stakes, but for the other it's their exclusion from the…

Do you think there's any way universities can analyse living racist ideas, like a virologist analyses a deadly disease, handling it in an isolated lab and only through thick gloves?

They can and they do .. but it has to be done in the third person and not by advocates. Effectively this is what "post-colonial studies" is about.

The opportunity existed to put statues of racists behind glass, for example, away from their positions of public prominence and celebration. I don't think too many people would object to the university of Oxford having a statue of Cecil Rhodes that they kept in a cupboard.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#209

Post by turbinerneiter »

throwlogon wrote: post #100
turbinerneiter wrote: post #83

Ya'll use University wrong. The classes, etc. ... whatever! During my time at Uni, I: * designed a demonstrator car frame to show off a bunch of new manufacturing techniques, which was actually built in the end * was part of a team who tested a new type of fiber optical vibration sensor on a sounding rocket * worked with a PhD student on developing a sensor to measure water flow through a tank to validate his simulat…

For students who arrive at a university without already knowing these opportunities exist, it's not always apparent that they do exist and may be available to them.

The clubs are definitely advertising and trying to find new people.

What people don't know is how good this stuff is, that they can actually get it done in parallel to the classes and how rewarding and educational it is.

This is definitely something where kids with parents who went to uni have a benefit, since they will know more about how to navigate the system and about things like this.

I didn't have this benefit, my parents never went to uni, but we had a lot of books and dad taught me to poke at everything :)

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