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UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

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Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#201

Post by baryphonic »

papeda wrote: post #108

There are about 1800 UCSC graduate students [1]. From this 2014-15 UCSC budget report [2] there is a very near 2:1 masters:phd graduation ratio. Assuming there are 2 years of masters students and 6 of PhD at any one time, that makes PhD students 60% of “graduate students”. Let’s make this easy by saying 1000 PhD students (if anything I imagine it’s way less than this — as I understand, monetizing masters students has…

The problem from the university's perspective is that while $13M is a low-ish amount of money (by university standards), the university has no reason to believe it would "put the problem to bed." If the university backs down, the strikers will be able to dictate any terms they want in the future, and any such strikes (i.e. illegal ones) would certainly have many more participants. The disruption to university operations could be severe.

And this is why unions exist in the first place and make binding contracts - no one wants to make a deal with another party when the other will arbitrarily decide the deal isn't good anymore and act like fools contrary to the terms of the contract.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#202

Post by cycrutchfield »

saagarjha wrote: post #185
cycrutchfield wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hyperbole is not really helpful for this discussion.

Describing graduate students who are rent-burdened to the point where they can't afford basic necessities is not hyperbole.

If they are so rent-burdened, they should consider living with a roommate, or perhaps 2 or 3 roommates. Then they would be more easily able to afford basic necessities.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#204

Post by Marsymars »

DuskStar wrote: post #179
p1esk wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most faculty does not want to grade anything. I've TA'ed 6 courses, the professor just showed up for lectures and reused last year's exams/homeworks. Students had the solutions, >70% of the class copied them exactly. The prof didn't care. And TA's were handling most complaints about the grades. This was common for majority of undergrad level classes I took (a different UC campus). Also, it was my job as a TA to expla…

No offence, but that sounds like a really shitty school to me.

Research universities prioritize research when hiring professors, not teaching.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#205

Post by wutbrodo »

rumanator wrote: post #35
gist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you (and others) think that education and academia is somehow special and not the same as, say, acting (or any career) where people regularly earn no money and work bad 2nd jobs just to survive and do something they love or want as a career? In a free market system nobody is telling you to choose that career and a University and (typically) a non-profit doesn't have any particular incentive to not act in their…

Unfortunately a PhD is sold as a key step for a well-paying and fulfilling career where you can make a difference. As we live in a society where education is fundamental to success and having a good life, a PhD is considered as the last and most exclusive step in a promising career path. But then the disappointing part is that the system in place is designed to exploit newcomers and place them in an abuse relationshi…

I don't disagree that universities are horribly corrupt, extractive institutions squatting over responsibility for a system that creates an immense amount of value for society (academic research).

But the claim that "a PhD is a necessary step to _specific_ well-paying and fulfilling careers" isn't incompatible with the GP comment's claim that intrinsic motivation makes people shoulder these crappy conditions, just like (eg) actors. It's pretty well-known that PhDs are, on average, _terrible_ career moves from a self-interest and financial perspective. This is common knowledge among literally everybody I've ever met who has any exposure to academia. Hell, Piled Higher and Deeper has been around for more than _20 years_; my university's paper syndicated it.

Just like struggling actors, PhDs put up with low pay and bad conditions to take a shot at something they want to do, with the additional wrinkle that they're (nominally) increasing their human capital in a way that a failing actor isn't. Nothing about your comment rebuts the GP comment's claim that there's nothing unique about academia in this respect.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#206

Post by saagarjha »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #202
saagarjha wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Describing graduate students who are rent-burdened to the point where they can't afford basic necessities is not hyperbole.

If they are so rent-burdened, they should consider living with a roommate, or perhaps 2 or 3 roommates. Then they would be more easily able to afford basic necessities.

At my university, graduate student housing is already like this. Graduate students are doing this already.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#207

Post by p1esk »

meddlepal wrote: post #203
p1esk wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ranked top-50 in the nation.

Good example for the uselessness of rankings then.

To be fair, the profs were usually world class experts in their respective fields, and the quality of graduate-level classes was really high.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#208

Post by saagarjha »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #200
gyrgtyn wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I’m struggling for basic needs such as toilet paper, buying my son milk,” said Arjona, who pays about $1,700 a month in rent out of the $2,200 she receives

A cursory examination of Craigslist shows that you can easily rent a nice 4 bedroom house for $4000/month in Santa Cruz. Get a couple of roommates to split the rent and you're only paying $1000/month. Perhaps Arjona should consider that she could have more money for living expenses if she was more economical with her housing choices. After all, she was the one who chose to sign a lease for $1700/month on a $2200/mont…

Are you seriously telling this graduate student (with a child!) that she should find more roommates when she apparently has some already?

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#209

Post by cycrutchfield »

saagarjha wrote: post #206
cycrutchfield wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are so rent-burdened, they should consider living with a roommate, or perhaps 2 or 3 roommates. Then they would be more easily able to afford basic necessities.

At my university, graduate student housing is already like this. Graduate students are doing this already.

Great, that's as it should be. At your university, are graduate students able to afford such a living situation on their stipends?

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#210

Post by Thorrez »

thanatosmin wrote: post #143

I see a lot of discussion about the consequences of TAs withholding grades. This situation is a consequence of poor management at UCSC. Every other university I'm familiar with makes faculty responsible for submitting grades. It's inconceivable to me why TAs would be responsible for grades. TAs should be teaching assistants, not adjunct faculty. Edit: I read "assigning grades" to mean assigning the final grades for t…

As an undergrad Instructional Aide (aka IA aka TA) at the University of Michigan I taught labs/discussions as well as graded homeworks and exams.
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