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I Bought a House with Solar Panels

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Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#201

Post by astura »

duskwuff wrote: post #188
astura wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are? First I've ever heard of it. I just got a new furnance and some sort of contract wasn't even offered to me as an option.

These contracts aren't available through the same channels that you'd purchase equipment through. They're often offered to low-income homeowners, or sold by (shady, IMO) repair workers. Many home equipment leases are abusive in nature -- they're deliberately made hard to cancel, with many leasors attaching extortionate "equipment removal" fees to cancellation.

Oh, okay. I guess I'm just not familiar with them because I never sought them out. I was assuming if they were common the installer would say "here's the quote for installation and here's the quote for leasing"

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#202

Post by astura »

CydeWeys wrote: post #47

My parents have a large solar installation on their roof that they own outright. They paid for it cash, but if they hadn't had that much available, then a HELOC would have sufficed and not produced any of this kind of drama at sale time. Don't lease anything on your house; it's a huge hassle. Get a loan/HELOC for it if necessary and the numbers work out, but don't enter into a long leasing agreement that can cause tr…

Not all leases are terrible, though most probably are. I have a leased propane tank, it's not a hassle or anything, I don't pay anything to lease it, I just pay the company for the propane when it need filling. It only needs filling like every 3-4 years because it's only used for the stove. I'm not really sure why its leased, but it could probably be replaced easily if need be.

I think the people these sorts of things appeal to are the people who have poor credit and/or very little equity in their house.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#203

Post by sys_64738 »

m4x wrote: post #176
sys_64738 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got the weight of the things bolted to your roof. Is your roof new or less than new and needing replaced before the solar panels are paid for? Do you know a roofer who will touch solar panels during a re-roof? This doesn't even discuss the installer incompetence and the damage they'll do to your roof during install. Those panels are bolted to the roof and bolts cut through shingles and the sheathing underneath…

What do you see obsoleting solar panels in the near term?

Solar shingles is where it's eventually gonna end up on cost and beauty, IMO.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#204

Post by astura »

seanalltogether wrote: post #122
giarc wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we toured our home, the water softener system said rental on it. We inquired and the home owner confirmed the unit was purchased out right. So water softener systems is another potential example.

A water well was the first thing I thought of as a possible transferable lease, I could see septic systems possibly being leased too. Edit- Some houses are also still heated by oil that has to be delivered on a routine basis and I could see that having a lease as well.

How do you lease oil delivery? Or do you mean the tank itself?

If you have an agreement for an oil company to come fill your oil when it gets low, you just terminate your agreement when you sell your house.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#205

Post by AngryData »

pdonis wrote: post #141
dragonwriter wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much all sales and advertising is built around creating a perception of pain and/or fear and offering relief for that. That SunRun included that in their sales manual just indicates that they were addressing a sales force that was significantly staffed with sales novices who didn't already understand that, not that they were particularly nefarious.

> Pretty much all sales and advertising is built around creating a perception of pain and/or fear and offering relief for that. No, pretty much all sales and advertising is built around finding some problem the customer has that the product or service being sold solves (or solves better than their current solution). But there's no need for the problem to be pain and fear--let alone pain and fear that is a perception…

My advertising professor told us the opposite, he straight up told his students that the best sales tactics is to evoke emotional responses like fear and mental anguish and to leverage that to your benefit, including with with lies of omission and unsubstantiated claims about what you are selling.

Sure you don't HAVE to do those things, but then you won't make nearly as much money doing only slightly less soul crushing advertising work. Just like being a good politician doesn't usually get you nearly as far as being a bad and corrupt politician willing to lie straight to people's faces.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#206

Post by skybrian »

vkou wrote: post #198
ChuckMcM wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this argument but I disagree with it. I will stipulate that PG&E qualifies as a 'poorly run, centralized utility' and based on its billing it cannot provide power to residential homes for less money than a locally installed solar system can. The reasons for this are worth considering. PG&E has to maintain a power transmission infrastructure. That infrastructure has a high inspection cost, land use cost, equipm…

Oh, don't get me wrong - solar power generation is fantastic in areas that can support it (Which is most of the world.) Rooftop solar power generation is what I have an issue with. Utility-scale solar has all the advantage that you cited, without the disadvantages of being incredibly labour-intensive, overcomplicating the electric grid, and offloading long-term maintenance to non-experts. If you are going 100% off-th…

It requires a grid, but maybe not a national grid?

There has been a lot of talk about how we need more long-distance power lines for load-balancing solar and wind. However, the PG&E bankruptcy seems to show that we've been underestimating what it takes to properly maintain a grid. Are long-distance power lines more expensive than we thought?

Or maybe rural, fire-prone areas would do better with more local solutions that reduce the amount of low-usage power lines that need to be maintained?

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#207

Post by rconti »

yumraj wrote: post #159
rconti wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went with Clean Solar in San Jose. All companies I got quotes from were very similar; I wanted to go with a small/local company, but the smallest company I talked with turned out to be shady/on the verge of criminal, and for me, Clean Solar struck the right balance of being local and big enough to have tons of great reviews and presumably good financial resources, but not huge. The SunRun guy I talked to was also g…

Thanks, very helpful. I do prefer local in general. If you don't mind, would love the name of your sales person..

Craig Rush / craigr@ clean solar dot com

He's in Foster City, and was previously an engineer, so I felt he 'gets it'.

If you need to get ahold of me, my username here at gmail.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#208

Post by seanalltogether »

astura wrote: post #204
seanalltogether wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A water well was the first thing I thought of as a possible transferable lease, I could see septic systems possibly being leased too. Edit- Some houses are also still heated by oil that has to be delivered on a routine basis and I could see that having a lease as well.

How do you lease oil delivery? Or do you mean the tank itself? If you have an agreement for an oil company to come fill your oil when it gets low, you just terminate your agreement when you sell your house.

Tank installation + piping + maintenance + exclusive oil supplier, all wrapped up in a 10 year contract attached to the property. I'm not saying there are companies that do that, but I could see it being a possible business model.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#209

Post by astura »

seanalltogether wrote: post #208
astura wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you lease oil delivery? Or do you mean the tank itself? If you have an agreement for an oil company to come fill your oil when it gets low, you just terminate your agreement when you sell your house.

Tank installation + piping + maintenance + exclusive oil supplier, all wrapped up in a 10 year contract attached to the property. I'm not saying there are companies that do that, but I could see it being a possible business model.

Oil tanks + installation are cheap enough I'm not sure it would make financial sense for this to be a business model (we were quoted a ballpark figure of $1,500 to replace ours). Oil tanks require no maintenance whatsoever, just replacement every 15-30 years.

I have an agreement from a company that they deliver oil automatically when I need it, but I don't pay anything extra vs just calling them for a one time delivery and I can terminate the agreement at any time.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#210

Post by Teknoman117 »

vkou wrote: post #175
skybrian wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even without explicit subsidies, it seems like rooftop solar is still getting hidden subsidies? If homeowners were paid wholesale rates for the power they provide, with prices based on the spot market, would any of it make sense financially?

No, it wouldn't. For the same reason that me operating a coal power plant in my backyard wouldn't provide me with cheaper electricity then just buying from the grid. A centralized utility, even a poorly run one, will always provide electricity safer, cheaper, and more consistently then thousands of tiny private installations.

Define safer? more safe for an individual or more safe methods of generating power?

Centralized utilities also have a nasty issue of not coping with natural disasters particularly well...

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