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H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

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Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#201

Post by whack »

untog wrote: post #80
wuxb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So an obvious solution would be allowing H1B holders to freely change jobs, even with gaps. Accordingly, the employers won't be able to lock the visa holders. Then there will be fair competition that makes sense. But anyway the big companies don't want to lose the "lock" so it would be hard to change.

Clarification in case any H1B holders are reading: you absolutely can transfer your H1B visa, though I think a break of more than 30 days would be a violation. The trick is when you H1B employer also offers to sponsor your green card. That isn't transferrable, and if you're from certain countries (like India) it can take up to ten years to get one.

> "The trick is when you H1B employer also offers to sponsor your green card. That isn't transferrable"

Yes but the priority date itself is transferable. This allows you to job hop as many times as you want, without losing your place in line. If you have to wait 10 years for your green card, you might as well take advantage of this option and only worry about your green card 9 years down the road.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#202

Post by ReptileMan »

vowelless wrote: post #135
yholio wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like such a simple issue to fix: the only condition for getting a specialist visa should be to find an employer willing to pay a specialist salary, say above 150K. Doctors included, I see no reason to protect them from competition. Hop jobs at will but need to maintain within 85% of that level. If a company can't find workers, it should pay more up until a level that puts the competitiveness of the economy unde…

When I was on an h1b, I was making around 60k in the middle of the country, working for an amazing startup where we were ramen profitable. My skill set was highly specialized for the job. However, I couldn’t be a founder due to my visa status and we couldn’t pay each other even basic salaries. But we did some pretty amazing stuff for DARPA, DOD, and eventually some commercial enterprises. You would price out people l…

From my point of view - both excluding you from the job market or giving you general purpose work visa are better for the rest of the people in your industry(with second option better for you of course). Than work permit depending on sponsorship.

If you are valuable enough to work in US, you are valuable enough to do it as a full market participant without shackles or handicaps.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#203

Post by baybal2 »

The problem of the system is that US left close to nothing to regular work visas. The premise that only "high end" companies are deserving to be let hiring cheap workforce is wrong.

In reality, it seemed to me, that pretty much any "white collar" job was passing H1B invariably of the salary, but even very high skill requirement "blue collar" jobs were denied by default.

This is my experience from the time one of my past employers tried to make a final assembly plant for electronics in Washington state. It was very hard to find well educated assembly line workers. The company ended hiring fresh master degrees grads to simply do assembly from knockdown kits for 70k, but even they were not up to the task.

That business was scrapped in the end.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#204

Post by comesee »

geofft wrote: post #126
SamReidHughes wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The primary objection to that idea is the complete destruction of your country's culture.

Again, protectionism. If a billion people in India and a billion people in China are competing in global markets, my country's culture isn't going to survive anyway. How is Ottoman culture doing these days? Honestly, how is the British culture of even a century ago doing these days? How long did the Japanese culture so carefully preserved survive Matthew Perry's arrival? (Also as it happens I'm an American-born child…

You're a superficial carrier of American culture. Sure you speak English and consume American media, but you have socialist values which are not American. This is the land of the free, not the land of government-enforced equity and insanely high marginal taxes for the rich. Let me guess, you're anti 2nd amendment? If there were more people who thought like you in America, the country would indeed collapse in on itself.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#205

Post by comesee »

geofft wrote: post #164
an_cap wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose you also lament the destruction of masculine work culture engendered by allowing women in the workplace?

Leave him alone, he just wanta to secure the existence of his people ...

The bill of rights is culture. Twitter has totally corrupted your world view.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#206

Post by austincheney »

blitmap wrote: post #47
mykowebhn wrote: post #8

Granted that H-1B visas should ostensibly be filled only for positions where it is difficult to find qualified American citizens or permanent residents, but in all honesty are the Department of Labor's allegations really that surprising? In the Bay Area, qualified job candidates are so scarce that it's quite common for citizens/permanent-residents to change jobs frequently. H1-B candidates are attractive for companie…

I see 3 things here: 1) Qualified job candidates are scarce? Just... what? The only difference between here and there is when people lie and say they're qualified, the company is willing to pass this lie on to the government to say "the qualified candidates are over there". There are people who can do the work, and there are companies who want to pay less in total compensation. I feel like my entire generation was ra…

I love discussions about hiring and immigration. People always focus on their idea of what others should do while ignoring all the data and the reality at present. When you see otherwise rational people ignore data, focus on unqualified conclusions, and opinionated targets their bias is laid bare. Regardless of what you believe is the right answer what does the hiring data actually say?

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#207

Post by pertymcpert »

htfy96 wrote: post #149
untog wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I say this as someone who lived in the US on a visa for years) That's part of the deal. Any immigrant arriving on a visa knows what they've signed up for, and it doesn't involve taking a sabbatical. It also really should not involve buying a house, if you're being sensible. Being fired 100% sucks, but you can transfer an H1B to a new employer. H1B is at least a dual intent visa, so after some years you can apply for…

The real problem is the path from L1/OPT -> H1B -> green card is purely based on how many years you have worked in the US and performed as some kind of lottery. The transition may take at least 8 years, almost identical for highly-educated Top-N employees & questionably-legal "labors" from IT Consulting Companies (there are lots of fake identities/backgrounds in these companies' H1-B applications).

Why would an L1 want to go to H1-B instead of going straight to green card?

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#208

Post by raverbashing »

maksimum wrote: post #163
m0zg wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because immigration is not a "right". It's a privilege. And if this privilege is afforded at all, it should be afforded in such a way as to not screw the citizens whom the government represents, through social contract and otherwise. Otherwise the citizens should elect the government that will represent their interests. I mean it's not rocket science, it's civics 101.

Based on the US's history, relatively free immigration has made the country as a whole very successful. It's not obvious that citizens should want protectionist immigration policy.

"Free"

Yeah not really. This is a bit of a myth (a little bit like the "90% income tax rate" magic that people seem to believe)

1 - Immigration was severely limited by the technology (and let's say societal limitations) of the time. Getting a ticket on a ship was expensive, even for 3rd class. 2 Million Irish went to the US around the Famine time (time frame of 40yrs +/-). Compare that with the number of people from Latin America in the US (though % the number of Irish is higher)

2 - About 'societal limitations' going was nothing but a gamble. There was no expectations of government aid, of non-prejudice. No credit cards, no easy way to take money unless you actually took your money with you. Getting a ticket back was not an option.

3 - Even on Ellis Island people did get rejected and sent back on the basis of health https://www.history.com/news/immigrants-ellis-island-short-p...

The real tightening of immigration seems to have happened around the 60s (though some other acts are from the 19th century like the one that limited Chinese immigration)

So it was certainly "freer", in the same way that immigration for the ultra-rich today is almost free as well.

Note that I'm not arguing against immigration (within some limits), but once a country's population increases I guess there are more people against it, and less of a practical interest in it.

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#209

Post by [deleted] »

smb06 wrote: post #89
yholio wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like such a simple issue to fix: the only condition for getting a specialist visa should be to find an employer willing to pay a specialist salary, say above 150K. Doctors included, I see no reason to protect them from competition. Hop jobs at will but need to maintain within 85% of that level. If a company can't find workers, it should pay more up until a level that puts the competitiveness of the economy unde…

One big problem with restricting to salaries above 150k is that you’ve disqualified anyone who may be early in their career. Not many who are below a mid-level career role will get that kind of salary. What does that affect? All undergraduate students coming to the U.S. who spend $$$ on a 4 year college degree here and then try to find a job. You’ve just wiped that demographic out because they won’t get 150k salary.…

[deleted]

Re: H-1B: Oracle favored hiring foreign graduates of US colleges over American grads

#210

Post by pertymcpert »

acpetrov wrote: post #160
austincheney wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Granted that H-1B visas should ostensibly be filled only for positions where it is difficult to find qualified American citizens or permanent residents Sorry the be the bearer of bad news but American developers, on the average, must suck. Developers, on average across the country, make around twice the local average yearly income, so there is clearly not a shortage for a lack of financial compensation. In my exper…

There's a side-effect, however, that's being ignored. If US companies don't like/trust the talent coming out of US colleges, they should have a stake in improving those programs. But if their solution is just to hire immigrants, it cheats colleges out of feedback from industry. Colleges really need more practical courses, at least starting in upper years, that set developers up for success in the workforce. How many…

University isn’t a job training programme or a trade school.
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