Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan • Hacker News Board

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#201

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 12:49 AM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #168

danso wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He can’t build it profitably, or at least without going through the environmental impact review that every other project of this scale must pass. Do you really think the hole digging is the bottleneck for every other underground project?

How much infrastructure is getting built under the current review process? The current process is just a fig leaf for everyone getting a NIMBY veto. California ought to be ashamed of its technological paralysis.

> How much infrastructure is getting built under the current review process?

The environmental review process doesn't stop a lot of infrastructure getting built, people prioritizing public spending on other priorities does.

> The current process is just a fig leaf for everyone getting a NIMBY veto.

No, it's not.

> California ought to be ashamed of its technological paralysis.

Perhaps, but CEQA isn't the source of the problem, to the extent there is one.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#202

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 12:51 AM UTC

mips_avatar wrote: post #177

danso wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a technological problem. If people get unhappy when Facebook "moves fast and breaks things" in its mission to "connect the world", then people should be just as cautious when it comes to construction projects that impact miles of public infrastructure and thousands of private homes.

Sure I mean bad (insert bad thing) things are bad. And a risk to private homes should stop a project. But I can’t find any proof that there’s a risk here. Tunneling is really safe.

> But I can’t find any proof that there’s a risk here.

Of course not, Boring pulled out rather than go through the process that would evaluate any risks.

> Tunneling is really safe.

Then there was no reason to avoid environmental review.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#203

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 12:53 AM UTC

mips_avatar wrote: post #186

danso wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why is Boring declining to take part in the EIR process?

You’d probably have to ask Elon Musk. I also haven’t read the lawsuit so I don’t know what specifically the homeowners wanted investigated. California law basically gives veto power to any homeowner for anything, so why bother trying to be innovative there in the first place? I think the software industry only evolved there because nobody had figured out how to regulate a bit yet.

> California law basically gives veto power to any homeowner for anything

No, it doesn't.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#204

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 12:56 AM UTC

mav3rick wrote: post #37

untog wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the long term, cheap tunneling would be fantastic for the environment. Depends how the tunneling is done, surely? If it's haphazard and prone to problems or even collapse I doubt it's an environmental plus.

That could be said for any infrastructure project ever. If X isn't done right,it will be disastrous for the environment.

> That could be said for any infrastructure project ever.

And that's why we have environmental review to vet infrastructure and similar projects before they get built.

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#205

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 1:13 AM UTC

thrower123 wrote: post #79

emiliobumachar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any suggestions? China comes to my mind, but that comes with a whole other can of worms.

China doesn't really need novel technological approaches when they have the political capital and power to just successfully do things the old ways. Moreover, they have an understanding of acceptable losses and human casualties that is more in line with attitudes prevalent when most of European and US basic infrastructure was initially constructed, compared to the extremely safe working conditions now expected in the…

[deleted]

Re: Boring Co. Drops LA Westside Tunnel Plan

#206

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 1:31 AM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #164

zjaffee wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't block it on any known Environmental grounds, CEQA exists to insure major infrastructure projects evaluate many options and attempt to find the most environmentally friendly option. In this particular case, it was almost certainly not building a low capacity tunnel for small vehicles and cars, but to build the already planned metro rail line without having to add engineering complexity to maneuver around a…

> In this particular case, it was almost certainly not building a low capacity tunnel for small vehicles and cars, but to build the already planned metro rail line without having to add engineering complexity to maneuver around a privately owned and built tunnel. A metro rail line can't transport a car, so point-to-point transit is out, as is any semblance of privacy. Why are you so quick to devalue these advantages?…

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