Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 375 posts

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#201

Post by nine_k »

rashkov wrote: post #121
bilbo0s wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, rickjr85 is right. Even in your response you implicitly concede that the root problem is human nature. You're implying that if we get rid of Google, or Twitter, that there is some kind of alternative technological method, (which you haven't elucidated on), by which we can mitigate the effects of the root problem.

violence is a part of human nature, too, but the technology of the atom bomb multiplies the danger for us all. So too with these newsfeed algorithms, which favor engagement above everything else, no matter how base and degraded the content is. I've been thinking a lot about this interview with Jaron Lanier, and I'll just share an excerpt because I think it provides some insight: "The problem, however, is that behind…

I suppose the limitation of use of nuclear weapons stems firmly form public understanding of their dangers (even if the understanding is vague), and thus public disapproval.

One thing to do about the blind engagement machines is to make more people more aware of them. Think about ways people handle hazardous substances. Knowing that a substance is hazardous is the most important bit, to my mind.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#202

Post by perseusprime11 »

If we fundamentally think big tech is bad, splitting them up will make the go much faster and it can get worse. Big companies move slower than smaller more nimble companies. The answer is not splitting up but just make them accountable for KPIs that are good for society.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#203

Post by nine_k »

Sileni wrote: post #185
nine_k wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that people have an (almost) unalienable power, very strong, and pretty underused. It's the power of walking away. If you find an environment toxic, leave it, and ask your friends to leave it, too. Yes, you have to research alternatives first, and make compromises, at least temporarily. Lately this somehow worked for Facebook. I bet they are going to see that on their bottom line. So, if you dislike the outra…

I think the comment you're replying to is trying to strengthen that ability. Now you don't have to convince some critical mass of your friends to switch over; you just switch over to the new platform, which everyone is connected to via some open source API/protocol, or the company running the data service is not running a front end to present the data. You continue to get the data from your friends and family while u…

My point is exactly not having to impose regulation.

The power to move away is already in the people's hands. You can do it at any moment, without a governmental mandate.

The point is to use this power. But first people have to recognize their power, and learn to use it a bit.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#204

Post by maxxxxx »

jogjayr wrote: post #192
maxxxxx wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. they are kind of coasting on previous innovations made a long time ago. Same for Google: Since search, Gmail, Android and Maps I don't see much innovation coming from there either.

Waymo? Duplex? Photos? Even Chrome is newer than the things you listed.

Waymo got bought, I don't know Duplex, Photos is not exactly innovative, Chrome is just another browser, they existed before

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#205

Post by jtbayly »

_cs2017_ wrote: post #181
zug_zug wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose tech companies were no longer legally allowed to use the network effect (i.e. they had to provide open-access to their public data via API). Then this would enable alternative front-ends on twitter. This would then enable me to filter messages by positivity, or whichever criteria I choose (e.g. non-Russian-bots, non-shills). This is turn would then change the whole ecosystem. It would remove the perverse ince…

This assumes that someone creates a free and easy to use front end that has these filters. I can believe that. This also assumes that a large fraction of Twitter users would use such filters. What makes you think they will? The reason I have doubts is that people who tend to be influenced by evil Twitter posts are not the type of people who are amazingly self aware and look for ways to reduce that influence.

I haven't been on Twitter in over a year, but lists already exist, don't they? So the filters already exist.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#206

Post by noetic_techy »

jcadam wrote: post #118
noetic_techy wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only have 2 choices for mobile OS, dominated by Apple and Google.

I'm willing to admit now that I actually liked Windows Phone and wish it had become a viable platform.

Same here. I was disappointed when they scrapped it.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#207

Post by arminiusreturns »

avaika wrote: post #161
arminiusreturns wrote: post #146

They shouldn't have been allowed to get as big as they are in the first place. Where has the DoJ been on anti-trust/anti-monopoly laws? I'm guessing going through the revolving door. That's why those laws are there, because busting up a monopoly after the fact is much harder than preventing it from merger and acquisitioning it's way to that monopoly in the first place.

How do you imagine companies shouldn't be allowed to grow? "Oh, you already have X customers, you can't get X+1. That would be a monopoly"?

That's not what I said. Antitrust/anti-monopoly laws have a strong basis, and it's certainly not "you can't grow". You are attacking a strawman.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#208

Post by kyledrake »

Let's start with the companies that voted for EME DMCA first. I'm sure TBL would be happy to release the list from the secret vote they had for it at the W3C.

Seriously, it's bad optics going around and criticizing everybody else for not holding power accountable when you don't have your own house in order. When it came time to stand up to this power, Tim actively defended their interests. I suppose most people have already forgotten about it, but I never will, and neither will my friends that could go to jail for trying to research the security of binary crap in people's browsers.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#209

Post by kerng »

nine_k wrote: post #170
zug_zug wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose tech companies were no longer legally allowed to use the network effect (i.e. they had to provide open-access to their public data via API). Then this would enable alternative front-ends on twitter. This would then enable me to filter messages by positivity, or whichever criteria I choose (e.g. non-Russian-bots, non-shills). This is turn would then change the whole ecosystem. It would remove the perverse ince…

I think that people have an (almost) unalienable power, very strong, and pretty underused. It's the power of walking away. If you find an environment toxic, leave it, and ask your friends to leave it, too. Yes, you have to research alternatives first, and make compromises, at least temporarily. Lately this somehow worked for Facebook. I bet they are going to see that on their bottom line. So, if you dislike the outra…

Walking away sounds easy on paper, like for gaming addicts. The articles about Facebook from the past come to mind where management was fully aware of the addiction factor, and in fact did everything to encourage people to stay on Facebook longer, including showing them "relevant" content and encouraging likes.

Maybe restrictions, similar to gambling could be put into effect? For instance, clearly stating the business intent of the site, requiring ID, limiting to certain hours,.. its sounds weird but it reflects how underregulated the internet is compared to other areas.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says tech giants may have to be split up

#210

Post by bostonpete »

_cs2017_ wrote: post #197

I'm hoping he provided some rationale about why Microsoft, Google, and Apple should be split up. The way the interview is quoting just a couple sentences, it's hard to tell. If there's nothing besides the quote below, I'd consider this an extremely weird and weak argument: > What naturally happens is you end up with one company dominating the field so through history there is no alternative to really coming in and br…

Right -- he makes this "one company" comment and then follows it up with a list of 5 companies that are dominating...
Post reply on HN