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Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

sqlite.org

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Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#201

Post by loktarogar »

anbro wrote: post #133
mikeash wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the religious part as being the entire point, since it comes from a religious order. The very first rule is about loving a particular deity. If we were to go back in time and find these people, what do you think would offend them more, “I hold grudges” or “there is no god”?

I daresay that a difference in opinion like that would probably not trigger most people back in that age in the same manner it seems to do so now (on both sides - I'm not picking on one side here).

People went to war over not believing in the same particular flavour of god.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#202

Post by legostormtroopr »

stephenr wrote: post #162
jymbo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what every CoC does.

I've never heard of a CoC demanding belief in a specific deity before.

Most Codes of Conduct prescribe to ideas of patriarchy or intersectionality - if you don't believe in these, then you are generally reeducated or expelled.

I have seen equal evidence for the existence of a God as I have the existence of a Patriarchy.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#203

Post by oaktowner »

rphlx wrote: post #198
oaktowner wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird, though, right? I mean, flip the logic. What if someone had a code of conduct that was clearly about people treating each other well...but started it with "First, you must acknowledge that there is no God." Or "First you must acknowledge that Mohammad is God's messenger." Or "First you must accept the mitzvot as binding." Or "Brahman is Truth and Reality." None of these is promoting inclusion. That said: I…

I reject this premise that every CoC must "promote inclusion" i.e. be approved in full by some social marxist Politburo notionally intended to protect everyone's "feelings" by expunging and banning everything that might be considered "offensive". If you want that for your own project, fine, but you have no right to force it onto others. In any case, western civ has deep roots in the christian tradition and I don't kn…

I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything, and I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that I am. If someone wants their OSS project to be appealing to the 1/6th of the people in the world who consider themselves to be Christians, that's fine.

If they want to try to be appealing to, say, 7/7ths of the developers out there, they might want to do something different.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#204

Post by Const-me »

oaktowner wrote: post #203
rphlx wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reject this premise that every CoC must "promote inclusion" i.e. be approved in full by some social marxist Politburo notionally intended to protect everyone's "feelings" by expunging and banning everything that might be considered "offensive". If you want that for your own project, fine, but you have no right to force it onto others. In any case, western civ has deep roots in the christian tradition and I don't kn…

I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything, and I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that I am. If someone wants their OSS project to be appealing to the 1/6th of the people in the world who consider themselves to be Christians, that's fine. If they want to try to be appealing to, say, 7/7ths of the developers out there, they might want to do something different.

> appealing to the 1/6th of the people in the world who consider themselves to be Christians

I don’t consider myself Christians but I like CoC a lot. It even made me think why I only used sqlite when I had to.

To me the CoC doesn’t say I’m excluded. It says a couple of other things however, that author’s not ashamed of who he is, he’s sincere, and he knows about 1st amendment. I think all of these things are good.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#205

Post by rleigh »

stephenr wrote: post #162
jymbo wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what every CoC does.

I've never heard of a CoC demanding belief in a specific deity before.

If you don't believe in (or criticise) the faith of Intersectionality, then you are subject to persecution and expulsion. There's a very disturbing parallel with the beliefs and aims of militant SJWs and the some of the worst aspects of religious intolerance. CoCs such as the "contributor covenant" are a way of enforcing these beliefs as some kind of religious document, in effect. This makes the SQLite CoC a humourous parody of this type of CoC, being an actual religious document; this is one reason for the "outrage": religion doesn't like fun being poked at it.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#206

Post by rleigh »

caiocaiocaio wrote: post #81

Leaving aside everything else, using the rule of St. Benedict and pointing out its influence on medieval thought seems like poor choice. Benedictine monasteries were often notoriously corrupt. There were frequent attempts at Benedictine reform, but it was almost always that case that in a few decades, the reformers would become more corrupt than those they were initially criticizing. And, of course, is medieval gover…

Given the selective enforcement of some of these modern day religious texts (CoCs), one could strongly argue that the people with the power to enforce the CoC are already showing corruption far worse than any inappropriate conduct they purport to solve.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#207

Post by omnimus »

Const-me wrote: post #204
oaktowner wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything, and I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that I am. If someone wants their OSS project to be appealing to the 1/6th of the people in the world who consider themselves to be Christians, that's fine. If they want to try to be appealing to, say, 7/7ths of the developers out there, they might want to do something different.

> appealing to the 1/6th of the people in the world who consider themselves to be Christians I don’t consider myself Christians but I like CoC a lot. It even made me think why I only used sqlite when I had to. To me the CoC doesn’t say I’m excluded. It says a couple of other things however, that author’s not ashamed of who he is, he’s sincere, and he knows about 1st amendment. I think all of these things are good.

Well i love Sqlite and also don't consider myself Christian and i am quite baffled by this. I mean this is some strange place to promote Christianity. It is suprising considering how tech tries to always paint itself as apolitical.

Seriously i can't imagine the uproar and hate if he was a Muslim. Imagine how many tech leads would immediately start figuring out how to completely change their stack and replace sqlite with leveldb.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#208

Post by rleigh »

loktarogar wrote: post #200
drb91 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not seem like satire in the least. The rules seem more like common sense than anything humorous.

Unless there's enforcement, it's useless as a code of conduct.

Why? Why are people so concerned with "enforcement", which is basically "punishment"?

A code of conduct should be nothing more than a set of guidelines which contributors should aspire to meet. It's not a legal text, and it's not a religious text. We are free participants in projects, not unwilling subjects to be disciplined.

We've gone from projects where one was expected to behave properly, and if not would be politely admonished, and maybe kicked out if this continued over a long period, to this, where the CoC is to be used as a blunt instrument to punish transgressors. It's not an improvement, and I dislike the assumptions of bad faith and requirement for punishment. It's unnecessary, and sets the wrong tone.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#209

Post by pjscott »

_pgmf wrote: post #128
iodiniemetra wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#1 on the list is: First of all, love the Lord God with your whole heart, your whole soul, and your whole strength. I'm an atheist - I am unable and unwilling to comply with this CoC. So yes, I would say that I am affected. Other well known religious folk in the foss world, such as Larry Wall, do not insist on this kind of exclusion.

You wanna know how to tell if someone is an atheist? > I'm an atheist Oh wait, it doesn't matter -- they'll be sure to tell you.

A general problem with this genre of claims is that they're pure confirmation bias: you don't notice the people who don't tell you, because they don't tell you.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#210

Post by lsd5you »

roguecoder wrote: post #142
lsd5you wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but when did professionalism become a requirement for open source software?

When people started having both standards and options. I can choose between a college frathouse and a productive guild hall: why would I live in a frathouse?

Indeed. Choose away. Of course in the end you choose the one with functioning plumbing.
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