Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment • Hacker News Board

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#201

Post by dschep » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 12:26 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #147

aikah wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web components are not supported in many popular browsers. Until they are widely supported they are not a thing. And no, Polymer and co are not polyfills for them, they are their own incompatible frameworks. I agree in principle but it's up to browser vendors to implement specs, and it is always the same offender that is dragging his feet.

Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, which they are already developing. On mobile Web 100% of the browsers support Web Components. https://www.webcomponents.org/ So what are the many popular browsers you refer to? As anything else is meaningless.

> Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, which they are already developing.

> On mobile Web 100% of the browsers support Web Components.

Wait. Which is it? Or are you ignoring Firefox Mobile?

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#202

Post by ergo14 » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 12:26 PM UTC

aikah wrote: post #199

pjmlp wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/WebComponents/webcomponentsjs Quote from the readme. " A suite of polyfills supporting the Web Components specs: Custom Elements v1: allows authors to define their own custom tags (spec, tutorial, polyfill). Shadow DOM v1: provides encapsulation by hiding DOM subtrees under shadow roots (spec, tutorial, shadydom polyfill, shadycss polyfill). "

.

What do you think youtube, ing, netflix, or EA properties use? ;)

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#203

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 12:31 PM UTC

dschep wrote: post #201

pjmlp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, which they are already developing. On mobile Web 100% of the browsers support Web Components. https://www.webcomponents.org/ So what are the many popular browsers you refer to? As anything else is meaningless.

> Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, which they are already developing. > On mobile Web 100% of the browsers support Web Components. Wait. Which is it? Or are you ignoring Firefox Mobile?

I know that is not what HN likes to read, but iOS == Safari and Android == Chrome, and unless customer explicitly requires Firefox Mobile on the RFP, it gets ignored in acceptance testing for project delivery.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#204

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 12:36 PM UTC

aikah wrote: post #196

pjmlp wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% on mobile Web. Firefox already on beta. As for Edge it is already in development, and to be honest it doesn't matter with its insignificant market share. When Microsoft employees use only Chrome at BUILD to show Azure and .NET Core MVC features, the writing is on the wall how relevant the browser is on the market. Still you keep running away to clarify what "many browsers" means. Maybe it is my lack of native En…

> As for Edge it is already in development, and to be honest it doesn't matter with its insignificant market share. Market shares are not the same across countries, clients or even industries. That's the first mistake you are making. If I develop a product, I target whatever browser my customers use, not some world wide statistic that has very little local significance. You just don't get to ignore what goes against…

Firefox on mobile does not count for the majority of companies.

Mobile web is all about Safari and Chrome.

Again you keep avoiding to explain what "many browsers" means.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#205

Post by Eli_P » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 12:38 PM UTC

ergo14 wrote: post #162

dmortin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is: how many of these will be maintained several years later? Can you build a long term project on these? Or the expectation is that one has to make a new UI anyway every several years to keep up with the changing fashion, so rewrites are inevitable?

I think rewriting UI systems every few years and reimplementing in various JS frameworks that come and go is a serious waste of manpower. I'd so wish people would embrace web components properly once and for all, with LitElement, Svelte or Stencil. This way we won't have to live with another framework-bootstrap clone again and again and everyone can contribute to one solution that will work with all JS frameworks.

It seems replication of numerous UI frameworks to be a fruit of Evolution per se, and it will happen again and again.

You named Web Components, I've been embracing them for a while, but if you tried to switch from Google's Polymer to LitElement it wouldn't go smooth as you could have imagined. Both Polymer and LitElement are based on Shadow Dom and WC features curated by Google, but are not 100% backward compatible. That is to say, Web Components have been divided from within the same tech. No need to mention the rival concepts of "everything HTML" of Polymer 2.0 and fixing it to be "all JS and webpack-ready" in 3.0, and consequential deprecation of Bower.

And here you mention some Svelte and Stencil which I've never heard of before. Why need them? We have webcomponents.org already.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#206

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 12:38 PM UTC

chrisweekly wrote: post #194

pjmlp wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am on the same boat, hence why I am on Angular and Polymer side. Everything else that builds their little platform on top of the browser is not interesting to me.

That's radically inconsistent. Angular is not HTML, nor Javascript, rather it's its own thing -- precisely a "little platform on top of the web", to use your phrasing.

Not really, because Angular is in the migration process for Web Components adoption.

And TypeScript is a JavaScript superset with optional type annotations, which can be ignored if one so chooses.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#207

Post by pier25 » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 12:40 PM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #35

Why are these UI frameworks tied to React, rather than working for any HTML+CSS site (as with Bootstrap)? Do they provide interactive functionality that requires React or similar?

Bootstrap needs jQuery for anything that requires interactivity

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#208

Post by gog » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 12:42 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #73

matsemann wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree React isn't the issue here, you chose horrible examples. Loading Facebook on my computer (especially trying to open a chat window) brings my computer to a knee. And using twitter on mobile browser you quickly learn how the spinner looks.

I haven't had performance issues on Facebook in quite some time. And Twitter works like a charm on my Nexus. I'm wondering how much of your issues have to do with either round trip latency or network issues.

Using FB on my 2014 Macbook Pro is slow as hell and my CPU starts heating up causing the vents to spin up.

It has nothing to do with the round trip latency, the CPU is pegged.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#209

Post by zurn » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #170

aikah wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edge and Firefox are only missing Shadow DOM and Custom Elements, Your statement makes no sense whatsoever, they are "only missing" 2 of the most fundamental features of web components? that would actually help getting rid of all these incompatible UI toolkits? I don't call that supporting Web Components at all if you can't write custom elements natively. You obviously do not understand how the lack of support for…

Apparently you haven't read my comment as you missed "which they are already developing." and "100% support on mobile Web" part. Plus there are polyfills available for the meantime. So what other browsers are many popular ?

The "polyfills in the mean time" status has continued since 2013, it's not clear that there is a lot of momentum.

Re: Evergreen: a React UI Framework built by Segment

#210

Post by pier25 » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 12:44 PM UTC

Natela wrote: post #191

sgt wrote: post #33

I've wondered about React, although I haven't used it myself. I know that the new Reddit was written using React components, and it's very slow. Is that a React problem (i.e. is it hard to write fast web apps) or is it a Reddit problem (or both)?

React is not fast, clearly the simple idea of having a virtual Dom is very costly compared to do things by hand. However for a large scale app react makes it more easy to reason about and keep it maintainable, components are far easier to implement, etc... So for many people, the benefits you get on the development side outweight the performance overhead

There is an overhead, but the main problem with the new Reddit is not that it was made in React, but that it's a massive fuckup. Not only from a programming perspective but also design and UX.