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Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

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Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#201

Post by kenhwang »

cortesoft wrote: post #185
kenhwang wrote: post #9

I echo the comp aspect. I pretty much had a best case non-unicorn startup exit; wonderful benefits pre-acquisition, actual unlimited PTO, and normal ~40hr/workweek, acquired almost immediately after receiving my shares, golden handcuffs after. My total comp was more or less equivalent to my peers doing the big 4 grind over the same time period. They had zero risk and I had to win the start up lotto. But if I had to d…

I think a huge part of whether it is more fun or not is about where you are in life. Startup life was great for me when I was young and single, and enjoyed the startup lifestyle of excitement and risk. Now that I am older and have a wife and kid, I really like the stability, predictability, and salary of a job with a bigger company.

Agreed. It definitely depends on your tolerance to risk. Not everyone wants to be part of frat party that takes up half your days and weekends that could potentially disappear tomorrow without notice.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#202

Post by ryanSrich »

cortesoft wrote: post #196
ryanSrich wrote: post #23

Pro (from my personal perspective, YMMV): You get to work on something that will actually see the light of day. For me, there's nothing worse than being this tiny little cog in the machine that comes into work from 9-5 and produces something so microscopic that you question your importance at all. Working at a startup means you have to pull your weight, wear many hats, and get shit done. This also means you can climb…

Huh, I really had the opposite feeling when I went to work for a big company instead of a startup. Both startups I worked for never had serious traction and both shut down as failed. We worked so hard to create really cool products, but there just was not the demand for what we made. Cool software with no users. Now, I work for a huge company. My work gets deployed to tens of thousands of servers, and I know that peo…

> Both startups I worked for never had serious traction and both shut down as failed

I think this is the big difference. When you're working for a startup that literally can't keep up with demand (such as the one I work for now), it's an entirely different animal.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#203

Post by dunpeal »

kwindla wrote: post #184
dunpeal wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see a lot of people working at startups who got tired of doing things at big companies that just weren't that interesting to them. Those folks have often made enough money that they can afford to work at a startup for a few years because the work itself is more fun, the company has a mission they like, or they appreciate having a bigger day-to-day impact. The kind of people you describe are basically retired, and…

I agree about offering early employees as much equity upside as you can (and, just as importantly, a great work environment and team culture). But I disagree that the kind of people I described are rare, or that they are "basically retired." That's just not my experience. Many of the most valuable, hard-working engineers I know at startups have a few years of big company experience in their recent past, and are choos…

> Many of the most valuable, hard-working engineers I know at startups have a few years of big company experience in their recent past, and are choosing to do the startup thing all in.

I completely agree with this, except for the "all in" part. If you re-read my GP reply, that's what I was disagreeing with.

Not that they're not valuable - on the contrary. An engineer who did well at Google for 5-6 years is going to be incredibly valuable, and most startups would be lucky to get even just one or two of these in the team.

However, they have a different mindset, and I say that from experience. They don't need this job, and they don't see it as financially or otherwise important. In short, nothing is keeping them there. They're not committed to the success of the startup. Making 250K is nice, but not after you made 500K or more for several years, and can easily get the same pay if you wanted it, or find another 250K startup job in a heartbeat.

There's a reason bigger companies spend huge amounts of money to pay essential employees very well. It doesn't guarantee that they stay, but not paying them well certainly doesn't help.

So when the going gets rough, these people leave. It makes total sense, they have no reason - financial or otherwise - to commit to the success of the startup as a business. They're there for a good experience.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#204

Post by Nimsical »

I've been a repeat startup employee, and have now become a founder. The reasons I chose to live this path haven't changed.

If you have a comp.-driven mindset (i.e. you'd like to become a millionaire in X years), then I think there are far faster, better, easier ways to achieve that. Join a top-tier firm in the valley / NYC and do a decent job at getting promotions and you'll be well within your way by your mid-late thirties.

The best part of being part of a startup is your ability to be in fast-paced multifaceted problem-solving environment.

You can play quiet a few roles at a small company. As an early employee (engineer or otherwise), you can look at any part of the company, product or its internal operations and decide that it's something you care enough about to fix and improve upon.

I joined my first startup as an engineer, became a product manager, did sales, built employee on-boarding flows and training manuals, re-branded the company and learnt how to manage a sizable team as I moved on to marketing. All within less than 2 years.

You can get most of those experiences elsewhere, but not within that timeframe or the depth of autonomy you would receive to get it done is not attainable in a Big Corp.

This is exceptionally great if you're early in your career, are generally good at getting tasks done, but have no idea what your calling is. You can work at a startup (or a series of them) for a few years and walk away with understanding what you'd like to focus your time and money on for the next few decades of your life.

Only caveat that I would add is that if you'd like to achieve any of that, then it's paramount that you look for the right founders. Founders that are willing to give away autonomy and let you flourish. They tend to be the best ones and produce great companies with incredibly rich cultures as a result.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#205

Post by avip »

thetrb wrote: post #176
nieksand wrote: post #2

Just a few cons.... The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. Equity grants for early…

What also comes into the picture here is the extremely high cost of living in the Bay Area. Even startups have to offer $200k in non-"maybe" compensation to make sure people can afford living here. Even a relatively small size startup with 50 people now already has $10 million in salary costs per year (not even counting taxes, benefits, etc.). So overall the balance is tilted very much in favor of the big companies t…

Which raises the ancient Quan - why are startups so reluctant, as a species, to establish remote teams? How come VCs are even allowing their investees to pay bubbly rents and wages?

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#206

Post by lgregg »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #152
swimorsinka wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this too. There is a tier of engineers that are good, but for whatever reason, can't get into the big 5. They're bad at white-boarding or maybe they don't live in an area where the big 5 have offices. In those cases, maybe a startup makes more sense.

Often I find a number of great engineers that the big 5 disqualify for two main reasons: Location or Education. The big 5 tend to not allow remote work and if you don't have a college degree it's often hella hard to get an interview.

Yeah, I doubt I'll even bother to apply to the big 5, maybe even the big 20. I'm coming out of a yearlong software intensive in October with a liberal art major from a marketing background. I know a few people at those companies but there is also the question of leetcode. I think my chances are much higher with other types of companies, startups included.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#207

Post by crcl »

cm2187 wrote: post #147
justboxing wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This.

Stupid question. What does “this” means? (“what does this means” isn’t really googleable).

It's an informal way of agreeing with/emphasizing the parent comment.

Your question isn't stupid. Using "this" in such a manner is non-standard English and I can see how the meaning would be unclear if English isn't your first language. It might be unclear even to native speakers if they don't spend much time on internet forums.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#208

Post by sjg007 »

thetrb wrote: post #176
nieksand wrote: post #2

Just a few cons.... The big players have drastically pushed up developer comp. The "maybe" money that might come from a best-case startup exit isn't holding up well against the RSUs of the big players. I have friends pushing total comp north of 400K / year at the usual suspect companies. Over a five-year-span-till-liquidity your "maybe" money is competing against a near-guaranteed $2M in comp. Equity grants for early…

What also comes into the picture here is the extremely high cost of living in the Bay Area. Even startups have to offer $200k in non-"maybe" compensation to make sure people can afford living here. Even a relatively small size startup with 50 people now already has $10 million in salary costs per year (not even counting taxes, benefits, etc.). So overall the balance is tilted very much in favor of the big companies t…

Yes.. well China might be cheaper.

Re: Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018?

#210

Post by yesimahuman »

joejerryronnie wrote: post #180
CodeCube wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a massive point right here ... there is so much talent, either already in "far flung" parts of the country; or currently in a place like SF, but who long to move "back home" for any number of reasons. Having startups be more remote-friendly by default would be a huge boon for everyone involved.

This might be the one and only competitive advantage startups can offer over the big (and even mid sized) tech companies now. As previously mentioned, the compensation is so large at the established tech companies, and the (mostly) false promises of startup wealth are largely debunked, that allowing all workers the ability to move to lower cost areas or back home but still work in a dynamic industry is very appealing…

Agreed that this is a big competitive advantage that smart founders should take advantage of. Doesn't mean you need to go 100% remote, but by being flexible on location you offer a pretty compelling alternative to a big tech co salary.
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