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The compelling case for working less

bbc.com

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Re: The compelling case for working less

#201

Post by jamiegreen »

ThomPete wrote: post #120

When me and my former collague now partner left Square after 4 1/2 to start a new design consultancy, we decided on a couple of things which have changed our lifes for the better. We wanted to be able to walk to our office. We work 3 first days of the week. We Have meetings and checkins on Thursday. And use Friday for various products we are developing or just for time to think. We dont do project prices only daily o…

If you ever want to expand to the UK, let me know! It sounds like you have a really well considered working routine.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#202

Post by swat535 »

kough wrote: post #12
spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

This might be my inner Canadian speaking but in my experience, it is much easier to feel joy when a friend of mine succeeds than envy him.

I feel much happier when people in my social circle are well off and living a great life.

I have also found that helping those around me succeed, whether financially, or personally, usually improves my own quality of life in someway (not always of course).

I also fully agree that one should only compare self to oneself.

After all we are all unique

IMHO happiness is truly achieved when shared :)

Re: The compelling case for working less

#203

Post by saas_sam »

Bad, misleading stats. This is why you cannot take even legitimate news sources like BBC at face-value:

"Even on a global level, there is no clear correlation between a country’s productivity and average working hours. With a 38.6-hour work week, for example, the average US employee works 4.6 hours a week longer than a Norwegian. But by GDP, Norway’s workers contribute the equivalent of $78.70 per hour – compared to the US’s $69.60."

This paragraph links to this article on 'no clear correlation' but the article itself says the exact OPPOSITE--that there's no correlation between increased vacation and greater productivity: https://www.hongkiat.com/blog/vacation-time-vs-productivity/

Not only that, but while Norway is indeed #1 of GDP per hour worked, USA is #3 and countries like UK and Canada are a distant #12 and #13, suggesting this obviously does NOT have to do with 'working less': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...

Re: The compelling case for working less

#204

Post by s73ver_ »

godelski wrote: post #194
gerbilly wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've never understood required hours. They want you there to answer questions. Workplaces value availability because it's too difficult to design coherent systems and to document them. Instead of that boring old stuff, in the modern workplace, we go fast and break things (or never get them fully working in the first place). Then we expect workers to be always around so they can be reached on slack when there is a pr…

Yeah, but with modern technology everyone is almost always reachable.

I don't put company email or company chat (slack) on my phone.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#205

Post by stevenwoo »

moccachino wrote: post #82
freddie_mercury wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Professional athletes sleep A LOT, way more than a normal person. To elaborate on this... Lebron James and Roger Federer have both said they sleep 12 hours a day. Usain Bolt, Venus Williams, Maria Sharapova and Steve Nash sleep up to 10 hours per day. Most NBA players take naps every game day, sometimes for as long as 3 hours. That said, not all pro athletes sleep a ton. Tiger Woods said he only sleeps 5 hours a ni…

I can believe that. Not to belittle Tiger Woods or anything, but golf is not a sport in the same way that basketball or triathlon is a sport. EDIT: This was poorly worded. Golf is a sport, but I don't know that a professional golfer is an athlete any more than a professional carpenter is an athlete. A professional basketball player is an athlete however.

I've heard it said golf is probably on the high end of athletism of what might be termed skill sports like darts, billards, bowling. Lots of eye hand coordination required, some specific strength/power requirements, no aerobic fitness/reaction time requirement.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#206

Post by mcguire »

"Holidays also can literally pay off. One study of more than 5,000 full-time American workers found that people who took fewer than 10 of their paid holiday days a year had a little more than a one-in-three chance of getting a pay rise or a bonus over three years. People who took more than 10 days? A two in three chance."

I'm reminded of the best sysadmin I have ever known. You'd see him at weekly staff meetings, but most of the time he'd be in his office, probably playing nethack. He was part of the furniture.

Then he'd go on vacation and all hell would break loose. I figured that was his way of letting everyone know he still existed.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#207

Post by smallnamespace »

kough wrote: post #12
spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

> irrational and stupid

Is it irrational and stupid? In a society at the limits of of its resources and stuck in a Malthusian trap, there is often zero-sum competition between members of the society.

Until the modern period and real technological growth, most humans lived in societies that were approaching local research constraints. Famine was common. If your neighbor had a bit more, it's likely because you had a bit less.

In that sort of a situation, learning that your peer makes twice as much as you thought is revealing quite a few things: e.g. you could have found a way to get paid much more and society is less equal or 'fair' than you thought.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#208

Post by mcguire »

Spearchucker wrote: post #94
kough wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

Age fixes that. Used to feel much the same. Now (approaching 50) I just couldn't give a shit anymore. A friend I've grown distant from over the last 4 years or so bought a 911 GT3 RS last year. And suddenly I hear from him. And I marvel at the waste. Purchases like that are meaningful on only two days - the day you buy it, and the day you sell it. I think a mid-20's me might've liked a car like that for the sex it co…

Yes and no. Sure, I'm no longer envious of, say, that friends who makes a ton of money; I now know what goes into that and I don't want to have any part of working like a hyper-caffeinated beaver.

On the other hand, when I was younger, seeing someone drastically less competent making more money didn't bother me. I thought it would catch up to them, and besides, I want in it just for the money.

Now, I know incompetence won't necessarily have consequences and that those other things don't mean anything, didn't happen, or whatever, and all I got out of the work was money.

Watching those people gets galling.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#209

Post by smallnamespace »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #160
Spearchucker wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age fixes that. Used to feel much the same. Now (approaching 50) I just couldn't give a shit anymore. A friend I've grown distant from over the last 4 years or so bought a 911 GT3 RS last year. And suddenly I hear from him. And I marvel at the waste. Purchases like that are meaningful on only two days - the day you buy it, and the day you sell it. I think a mid-20's me might've liked a car like that for the sex it co…

Age can both help fix the problem of feeling well-off and exacerbate it. It's easy to be among the top in something in the little group that a kid in high school is exposed to. Even in a big district, there are enough things to be good at that you can be the best at something esoteric. Then you go to a good college for that thing, and come in thinking you're all that, and suddenly realize that you're average. But col…

This is one reason I think training kids in any 'classical' discipline is really beneficial.

You will almost certainly never be as good a composer as Mozart, as good a pianist as Horowitz, as good at dancing as any company you can see on TV or as good at singing as even a mediocre performer in a talent show. But you can learn from the best and always get better through hard work.

Being exposed to the idea that 'no, you're not the best and probably never will be, but the real reward is seeing yourself improve step by step through hard work' is invaluable.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#210

Post by iamcasen »

randallsquared wrote: post #172
profalseidol wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reality of capitalism. Work or die! or join them in keeping the masses overworked

Reality of the universe. A desert island has no capitalism, but still has work or death.

There exist many more friendly ecosystems than a desert island my friend. Capitalism is indeed a desert island, with fortified garden paradises hidden behind insurmountable walls.

The fundamental question is whether or not man can evolve enough to not be a greedy piece of shit that's willing to claw and stab his way to the top.

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