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Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

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Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#201

Post by jordanb »

cletus wrote: post #60
_bfhp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GOP is beyond corrupt -- would you agree the focus should be on improving the Democratic Party to be formidable again?

Honestly the Democrats aren't much better. I can point the finger in many directions here: 1. The Clinton stranglehold (first Bill then Hilary) on the DNC was absolute to the point with Hilary off the stage there's a vacuum and no real leadership contenders. That I think was largely by design. Hilary didn't want a repeat of the 2008 nomination; 2. Obama seemed to either not care of was ineffective in shaping the part…

I think one could make the case that the Republicans are not corrupt because what you get when you elect them is exactly what it says on the tin. Their arguments may be lies, but their loyalties are not hidden.

It's corruption when you claim to be the party of fairness, the party of making sure average Americans get a good deal, but in the end you're doing the bidding of a slightly different set of billionaires.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#202

Post by alexqgb »

danharaj wrote: post #96
joelrunyon wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the corporation is still the symptom. What we should be doing is insulating the government from outside influence.

A government insulated from outside influence no longer governs.

It's not that representatives should isolated from all influence, just influence aside the electorate's.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#203

Post by b4lancesh33t »

rwnspace wrote: post #187
vasilipupkin wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But he borrowed 160 mln against the building" This is where your argument collapses. The building dramatically increased in value - that's why he was able to borrow so much against it. That's the real estate game - and it's legit.

I suppose it's here I should make the customary Georgist call for Land Value Tax.

The opposite, I think. Lvt does not tax the value of improvements. And while lots can be very valuable, they are not very valuable compared to the improvement if the improvement is a skyscraper.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#204

Post by icelancer »

mrleiter wrote: post #33

It's the wrong angle. One should not look at corporations as the moral saviours. As Supreme Court Judge Learned Hand once said: "Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing 851*851 sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced exactions, n…

Learned Hand was surprisingly never a Supreme Court justice. He's been quoted by the Supreme Court justices more than any other lower-level judge, however. He served mostly in federal appeals court.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#205

Post by paranoia101 »

pohl wrote: post #99
mjw1007 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose it's easier to pressure governments to change what's going on when we have journalists willing to tell us what's going on. When it comes to reporting information obtained from "secrecy jurisdictions", I think a standard of "if it's not illegal to report, it's OK to report" is reasonable. After all, that's the same standard you're advocating for managing your tax affairs.

Wasn’t the reporter behind the Panama Papers killed by a car bomb?

Yah!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/16/malta-car-bomb...

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#206

Post by ejnulls »

noobermin wrote: post #79

Since there are no top level comments putting this out for probably obvious reasons, here is a supportive comment for the article. This is what people feel in their guts when they drive out on tattered roads and avoid going to the hospital even though they are sick, when they don't have a real increase in wages but are working longer hours. They have the sense that something isn't right, that there are two sets of ru…

My question for America is, given the current system if every single person was smart and capable enough to be a physician is it possible that no one would live in poverty?

I've been thinking about this question for years and all evidence I can find and understand points to NO, we cannot provide the basic necessities for our population (with our current) even if everyone was an "upstanding member of society."

So, if the system cannot insure that every one is taken care even if every member of the system is highly skilled and capable then the system is WRONG. If we can't take care of an entire population of skilled and contributing members of society, we certainly can't take care of a population where many members are not highly skilled or capable.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#207

Post by mitchty »

halfteatree wrote: post #138
grondilu wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my humble opinion, the job of the government is absolutely not to give money to the poorest people, not even to maintain a "basic level of livelyhood". I'm also fairly certain this has nothing to do with the concept of justice.

Not believing in basic human rights isn't exactly what I would call a "humble" opinion. Words have meanings.

You could argue rights as being in the welfare category. But in all reality this centers on first agreeing to basic definitions of terms. Words do have meanings, but the most frustrating thing about our "post truth" world is everyone wants to define words in a personal level. It makes any sort of debate or discussion next to impossible.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#208

Post by icelancer »

wfo wrote: post #117
mrleiter wrote: post #33

It's the wrong angle. One should not look at corporations as the moral saviours. As Supreme Court Judge Learned Hand once said: "Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing 851*851 sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced exactions, n…

If we decide corporations have no obligation to be moral or decent, they naturally will behave as we expect. If we expect and demand (and punish the absence of) more, we can get more. Corporations are made up of people, and people are fully capable of not committing rampant constant fraud. Spending thousands of dollars to avoid their moral tax obligations instead of paying is in my view fraud and corruption; the fact…

What you are asking for is vigiliantism and extralegal actions against corporate persons and the people that make up these corporations. There's a lot of reasons why those things are considered pretty bad.

I also find it interesting that you say:

"Corporations are made up of people, and people are fully capable of not committing rampant constant fraud."

What are our local, state, and federal governments made up of, then - the same organizations that don't close loopholes and set tax code properly to serve the greater interest? Are these organizations not made of people?

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#209

Post by icelancer »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #162
erikpukinskis wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the wrong angle. One should not look at corporations as the moral saviours. It's too late. You're arguing a return to the past, "money is just money, corporations are just doing what's in their self interest." That's still the dominant ideology, but it's on the wane. It will be replaced when cash is replaced. Cash will be replaced by bonds. I won't pay McDonalds in cash for a burger, I will pay them in a bond…

Interesting idea. You have resources talking about this in more detail?

Ethereum and the idea of smart contracts can be an initiative towards this end.

Re: Paradise Papers: New leak from offshore finance firm

#210

Post by NN88 »

killjoywashere wrote: post #45
hacker_9 wrote: post #39

So how bad is this exactly? I'm all for equality, but the world is built on the game known as capitalism, and this stuff exists because people optimise their playing strategy. I know the starting conditions can be unfair, but we kinda need people at the top to make the whole thing work. If the world runs on money, then there will always be a poorer place that wants to attract the rich, and so havens are born. Let's n…

The havens are not the issue. The fact that YCombinator start-ups are funded by Russian oligarchs (via Milner) is an issue. The fact the the US Commerce Secretary is in business with Putin's family is an issue. The fact that Facebook and Twitter are funded by Russian oligarchs (again, via Milner) is an issue. There are a lot of issues here. These oligarchs have no problem killing people wholesale. You want to give th…

Jeffery Carr wrote about Milner's ties to the FSB/KGB in 2011

http://archive.li/2Lv1b#selection-549.14-549.39

...and got fired from Forbes Magazine for writing about it...

https://twitter.com/JamesFourM/status/915361529012289536

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