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Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

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Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#201

Post by mastazi »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #179
pjmlp wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for startups, on the enterprise space I am yet to see any customer move away from Oracle, SQL Server, DB2 and similar.

When I worked government contracting they had broad goals handed down which they must work toward without it being an explicit requirement. One of these goals? Get on top of an open source only stack for security, cost and future interoperability between other groups. I worked on several projects where they were originally using Oracle or MarkLogic and we transitioned them to Postgres or various other, open source te…

If you are allowed to and comfortable with it, could you share which country was that? Over the years I have looked at government projects in Western Europe, SE Asia and Australia, Europeans seem to be the ones that care the most about open source, while at the other end of the spectrum SE Asian governments are interested in it just as much as it lets them save money (much less because of "free as in freedom"). Australia seems to me kind of a mixed bag, it boasts about using Drupal because it's open source but I know that some projects are based on proprietary technology. Please note that much of the information I gathered is second-hand and may be inaccurate.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#202

Post by parthdesai »

empath75 wrote: post #78
bogomipz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually not true. Their cloud offering is doing really well. There's some impressive figures here: http://realmoney.thestreet.com/articles/09/15/2016/oracles-c...

Growth rate is a nonsense metric. If you're starting from nothing and invest a shitload of money in sales you'll have an amazing growth rate. IBM and Oracle are both way behind azure, google and aws.

I have a friend who works at IBM he tells me that IBM uses Google cloud for some of their stuff. The irony when you are a cloud provider but use another service.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#203

Post by billrobertson42 »

jimnotgym wrote: post #189
pjmlp wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe for startups, on the enterprise space I am yet to see any customer move away from Oracle, SQL Server, DB2 and similar.

SAP have their own tech in HANNA now of course Edit: SAP have a DB called HANA, not HANNA as I incorrectly typed

HANNA?

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#204

Post by saurik »

orangecat wrote: post #111
niftich wrote: post #59

I wish intent and end result counted more strongly. Andoid's compatibility isn't transitive: once code goes through the Android build pipeline to produce an Android Application it cannot be meaningfully used in the context of Oracle Java; it's a one-way transformation to remain "talent-compatible" with a large pool of Java developers and reuse the base of Java libraries. Projects like OpenJDK and WINE are efforts to…

once code goes through the Android build pipeline to produce an Android Application it cannot be meaningfully used in the context of Oracle Java Android apps typically have an MVC-like structure where the UI uses Android-specific APIs, but the model is straight Java. As an example, I created an Android game and later decided that I wanted to make a level editor as a desktop Java application. I was able to reuse the m…

Right: and if you remember, the entire concept of a "platform-specific Java API" is what was at stake when Microsoft lost this very similar lawsuit when Sun sued them over J++. Either what Google is doing is horrible or what Microsoft did shouldn't have been a problem :/.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#205

Post by magicalist »

moomin wrote: post #27

Let's slap a great big IANAL on this before I start: The fair use decision was wrong. It relied on a fundamental misunderstanding of the term transformative where the use of the code was considered rather than merely the implementation. So Oracle has a huge case here. Moreover, practically it doesn't matter. Even if fair use is established in this case, the door has been left wide open to hordes of API copyright trol…

> Even if fair use is established in this case, the door has been left wide open to hordes of API copyright trolls

FYI, this is not actually the case; this case established no precedent for copyrightable APIs.

Because of the history of this case (it originally involved patents as well), it was appealed to the Federal Circuit, which doesn't normally handle copyright cases.

This was a gift for Oracle since the Federal Circuit loves expanding IP rights, but also helpful to the rest of us because the Federal Circuit has no jurisdiction over copyright cases. Future copyright cases will go up through whatever circuit you're in, which will not have to treat the Federal Circuit's ruling as precedent.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#206

Post by metachris »

bdcravens wrote: post #177
diebir wrote: post #100

Oracle is set to repeat the trajectory of SCO. Their primary product (the Oracle DB engine) is being displaced by the NoSQL and things like Postgres. The "next generation" of developers equals SQL engines with "old and bad", and when forced, it ends up with Postgres anyway. Oracle used to survive in significant part by the support of the "database administrators" class. This layer of support is also becoming thinner…

> Their primary product (the Oracle DB engine) is being displaced by the NoSQL and things like Postgres. Worth noting they own MySQL (via Sun acquisition)

The developers moved to MariaDB, which is what everyone uses nowadays anyway rather than MySQL.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#207

Post by jimnotgym »

billrobertson42 wrote: post #203
jimnotgym wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SAP have their own tech in HANNA now of course Edit: SAP have a DB called HANA, not HANNA as I incorrectly typed

HANNA?

sorry HANA. SAP seem to be pushing it hard for Business One, over and above MS SQL.

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#209

Post by lmm »

saurik wrote: post #204
orangecat wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

once code goes through the Android build pipeline to produce an Android Application it cannot be meaningfully used in the context of Oracle Java Android apps typically have an MVC-like structure where the UI uses Android-specific APIs, but the model is straight Java. As an example, I created an Android game and later decided that I wanted to make a level editor as a desktop Java application. I was able to reuse the m…

Right: and if you remember, the entire concept of a "platform-specific Java API" is what was at stake when Microsoft lost this very similar lawsuit when Sun sued them over J++. Either what Google is doing is horrible or what Microsoft did shouldn't have been a problem :/.

The issue was the trademarks, which exist to prevent consumer confusion. J++ would have been allowed to exist, but it had no right to use the trademarked "Java" name, because if it only runs on MS it's not "Java".

Re: Oracle refuses to accept pro-Google “fair use” verdict in API battle

#210

Post by lmm »

ed_blackburn wrote: post #93
ghuntley wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fsharp |> welcomes all alienated Java veterans and newbies with open arms!

If you don't like maven, you're going to need a padded cell when you move to nuget.

I really like maven, so if there's an even more maven-ey thing around then sign me up.
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