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All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

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Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#201

Post by gfunk911 »

olivercreashe wrote: post #199
luma wrote: post #91

I think what people are missing here is an understanding of how these systems are tested and deployed at scale. While I have no involvement with Tesla I do have first-hand knowledge of similar programs at tier 1 automotive suppliers. The suppliers provide (or are looking to provide) an electronics suite to car manufacturers. The car manufacturers want the system to be safe lest they be sued out of existence. One part…

How is this a "brilliant" shortcut if what they cut short is the testing that you say is required to make these things safe???? This move sounds like a terrible idea with respect to what you say! It's like aerospace companies deciding to forego testing and calling that a "brilliant move!"

Self-driving is not enabled currently. They are only deploying the underlying hardware in order to start collecting data.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#202

Post by lightcatcher »

kpao wrote: post #113
detaro wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, what is "take control at a moments notice" in seconds? From what I've read about aviation, situations where really fast, let's say It seems like an airliner flying at altitude has quite large safety margins compared to a car on a highway.

Tell that to a pilot who's had an autopilot failure where a servo went crazy all of a sudden. You better act quick, especially in low visibility situations, to turn it off, or pull the circuit breaker. It might happen a bit slower than in a car, but the consequences can be much more dramatic.

> the consequences can be much more dramatic

How are the consequences much more dramatic while flying? I can think of plenty of scenarios while driving where you go from perfect autopilot conditions with no visible risks to death of passengers or pedestrians in <5 seconds.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#203

Post by tcpekin »

Klathmon wrote: post #148
djsumdog wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most interesting thing about self-driving vehicles is that there is a legitimate reason people should never be able to modify the firmware on their vehicles. The risks would be very high. There is also the entire liability and planed obsolescent issues not being dealt with. Will Tesla support these cars forever? Will 10 year old models still get software updates?

I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. Cars are already extremely risky to modify, but it is still possible (and it's even a protected consumer right). I can go out and accidentally cut the breaks on my own car while changing the tire, if it causes harm, we already have a system in place to deal with it. Why should software be any different?

I would argue that cars are not extremely risky to modify mechanically - the parts are usually large, almost everything you'd want to do on your car has youtube videos and forum threads with people doing the exact same procedure, and you have pretty immediate feedback if you really messed anything up/the car is inoperable.

I don't think that is the same for self-driving software if you were allowed to hack it. It is easy to test if your brakes work, I think it may be harder to test modified software with the huge number of interactions it must deal with.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#204

Post by berberous »

dogma1138 wrote: post #164
ClassyJacket wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide a source? I've followed the iPhone 7 pretty closely, own one, and haven't heard of any of these missing camera features that were present on the 6S (just the headphone jack).

Yes for example the autofocus for portrait mode for the 7 Plus was introduced with 10.1 http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/138914-iphone-7-plus-owners-... There were also another thing or 2 that came in 10.3 iirc.

You're mistaken. Yes, portrait mode on the 7+ was introduced in 10.1 on the 7+ rather than at launch. But this feature was never available on the 6. It requires the two cameras in the 7+ to create a depth map and then blur the distance. Nothing to do with autofocus. There's no feature that was removed other than the headphone jack.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#205

Post by huihe9849hjjgkg »

ams6110 wrote: post #134
blhack wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa...reading that doesn't rub me the right way at all . I trust Tesla, though, so maybe I'm misreading/misinterpreting it.

Why do you trust Tesla? In what ways are their interests aligned with yours?

Trying to save the planet would be one way.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#206

Post by laichzeit0 »

jayjay71 wrote: post #171
jfoster wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you must mean that you don't know an academic expert who thinks we're close. The teams at Tesla must think it's achievable in the next few years.

Well I also used to work with the team that's now at Uber (I worked at the National Robotics Engineering Center which is where they got almost all of their initial 40 engineers), and some of the guys I used to work with went to Google as well as Tesla. Tesla has a retention problem - their top engineers regularly quit every few years. Google lost nearly their entire team working on self-driving cars because Sergey in…

Excuse my rather hand-waving explanations below but I'm not an expert in this field.

The guys you spoke to, was this before or after they went to Google/Uber? As I understand the approach at Tesla would be (a) collecting an enormous amount of real-world driving data that possibly others are not or have not done yet, (b) do as little "coding" as possible, but rather take a deep-learning approach. I.e. the "algorithm" gets better the more data you throw at it, it doesn't depend on human intelligence, but rather on how much data you collect. Similar to how Google Translate got so good (it's not good because of any linguistic model or because a team of linguists "coded" it, it's just good because of the sheer amount of data it was trained on). (c) they have enough money to throw at any hardware requirements for a platform that could train on such an amount of data.

Are the conditions above not different perhaps from what you experienced whilst working at NREC and perhaps different from the way you guys approached autonomous-driving? I'm trying to think from Elon Musk first-principles. If it was technically possible, what are all the lego blocks you need to go about building this?

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#207

Post by Dangeranger »

luma wrote: post #91

I think what people are missing here is an understanding of how these systems are tested and deployed at scale. While I have no involvement with Tesla I do have first-hand knowledge of similar programs at tier 1 automotive suppliers. The suppliers provide (or are looking to provide) an electronics suite to car manufacturers. The car manufacturers want the system to be safe lest they be sued out of existence. One part…

Question: Does the fact that the collection of the required volume of kms driven is performed over a shorter period of time based on a higher number of test subjects collecting the data impact the diversity and quality of the data negatively?

Said another way: Is there a downside to parallelizing the collection process across a broader horizontal population of collection vehicles over a shorter period versus the traditional 1-2 year collection period?

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#208

Post by ChuckMcM »

thesimon wrote: post #70

If you go to the order page of the Model S, it says for the "Full Self-Driving Hardware": >Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year. Interesting decision.

I expect, and one of the lawyers reading can probably clarify, that Tesla's liability and risk changes if you're using the car for a commercial venture with their blessing. This specifically says you can't do that, so you're in violation of the terms of service and presumably that is enough to shield them.

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#209

Post by aerovistae »

Some of what they describe sounds like it's going to take some real adjustment before it stops being annoying and starts being useful, namely the assumption of what you want when you get in and out.

> If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar.

Oh boy. If you get in your car, it will just assume it should start driving somewhere more or less immediately? What if you want to sit for a few minutes?

I know, I'm taking them very literally. Just saying, though.

> When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself.

Again, what if I'm unpacking things for the car, or don't want the car to go anywhere? I don't want to have to pull out my phone and tap on something to stop it rolling away, or jump in front of it or something, or open a door.

Hopefully it obeys simple voice commands directed towards it like "wait here for now."

Re: All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware

#210

Post by tree_of_item »

will_hughes wrote: post #90
Trufa wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much it has to do with the autopilot death: https://www.tesla.com/blog/tragic-loss EDIT: no idea why the downvotes, I'm all for self driving cars, but pretty obviously they could be scared of PR issues and lawsuits.

Almost certainly very little. They've been clearly working on AP 2.0 for a long time - this sort of hardware upgrade isn't something you roll out in a few weeks. This capability was even pretty strongly hinted at for the Model 3.

Improving the self-driving capabilities has "almost certainly very little" to do with the high profile death caused by the use of the self-driving capabilities? Come on.
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