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Why most people don't like jazz

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Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#201

Post by jacobolus »

talvisota wrote: post #173
swannodette wrote: post #61

The state of music commentary on this thread is low enough to be insulting and pretty much validates the article. I find it humorous that a website that draws people dedicated to abstract thought can have such a mediocre understanding of music and music history. Do yourself a favor, find a piece of music that you think you don't like. Sit down and listen to it 50 times without distraction so that you know all the cha…

Well, I find it insulting when somebody comes and tells people how they should enjoy their music. I think your comment pretty much validates my image about the people who think they are better in listening to music than others. What has abstract thought to do with music history anyway? I am a software designer, and I truely appreciate useful abstractions that make creating good software a bit easier. But for music, I…

> I would have all the time if I wanted, but I don't, because I want to enjoy playing music - not to have it as yet another burden to bear.

You’ve completely swapped cause and effect.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#202

Post by raganwald »

WilliamLP wrote: post #138
raganwald wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you like Gershwin? Start with "Rhapsody in Blue." If you don't like that, there's no hope of building a bridge from your love of classical to jazz, you'll have to try a different way round. If you do like it, watch the movie "An American in Paris" and if you like any of the songs, look for instrumental versions of those jazz classics.

I kind of like Gershwin. I enjoyed playing a clarinet part for "An American in Paris" in an amateur concert band even. I like Dave Brubeck too actually. But those don't really seem like jazz to me, more like cheating:)

Well, Brubeck is to Rubalcaba as Mozart is to Mahler, and for many of the same reasons.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#203

Post by joe_bleau »

bryanh wrote: post #5

Not that I entirely agree with this article, but as a jazz musician, it definitely interests me. I am curious though; when was the last time everyone listened to an entire album while doing nothing else? (no driving, surfing, working, etc...)

I've been listening to an entire album once or twice a week for the last year or so. And this is serious, lights off, audiophile grade BUF-03 based amplified Grado headphones on, no distractions listening.

But I'm an anomaly, as I still buy CDs rather than individual tracks from the ITMS.

Here's something weird that I do: if I'm tuning the radio dial and run across a song or band the I recognize as being very well liked by a (absent) friend, I'll stop and listen to the whole thing out of respect for their opinion, even if I don't like it myself.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#204

Post by heyitsnick »

stcredzero wrote: post #62
heyitsnick wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider this both astonishing and disturbing? I don't find this surprising, nor do I see the problem.

Funny you should say that. Those who I find astonishing and disturbing in this way seldom see the problem.

Sorry, I'm not clear what you mean. What's the problem?

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#206

Post by Radix »

aston wrote: post #71

The criticism of rap in the middle of the piece seems both misplaced and undereducated. Some of the most musically complex instrumental music I've heard in the past few years has come out of the hip-hop world. Take a song like T-Pain's "Chopped and Screwed" [1] and try to pick it out on the piano -- it's got enough 7's,9's and alt chords to make any jazz listener happy. Rap is probably the only pop genre where fans p…

I'm not convinced. The melody sounds simple and repetitious, and the verses, mostly sung by tPain, are similar. The rest is just a fleshing out of these ideas, though, there is rythm and lyrics. I think you'll disagree with me, but I believe that's more because you disagree with me and the authors definitions of music than because I'm wrong.

Having said that, would you like to try to send me to some hip-hop I'll like. I've been looking, but when listening to music that has lyrics I have to listen to them, and I don't like these, or most rap for that matter. I've yet to find any particular artist I really like yet.

Jack White puts it well. On whether he does or does not particularly like hip-hop: "Not particularly. I find OutKast and Wu-Tang Clan interesting. But I consider music to be storytelling, melody and rhythm. A lot of hip-hop has broken music down. There are no instruments and no songwriting. So you're left with just storytelling and rhythm. And the storytelling can be so braggadocious, you're just left with rhythm. I don't find much emotion in that."

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#207

Post by gruseom »

Radix wrote: post #206
aston wrote: post #71

The criticism of rap in the middle of the piece seems both misplaced and undereducated. Some of the most musically complex instrumental music I've heard in the past few years has come out of the hip-hop world. Take a song like T-Pain's "Chopped and Screwed" [1] and try to pick it out on the piano -- it's got enough 7's,9's and alt chords to make any jazz listener happy. Rap is probably the only pop genre where fans p…

I'm not convinced. The melody sounds simple and repetitious, and the verses, mostly sung by tPain, are similar. The rest is just a fleshing out of these ideas, though, there is rythm and lyrics. I think you'll disagree with me, but I believe that's more because you disagree with me and the authors definitions of music than because I'm wrong. Having said that, would you like to try to send me to some hip-hop I'll like…

I agree with Jack White. Thanks for the quote. Still, as a very-non-hip-hop-fan, I have to admit: there may be nothing in it that I can appreciate besides rhythm, but that rhythm is often amazing. It's like Monet said about Manet: "Only an eye, but what an eye!"

(Actually, that's not true. The other aspect of hip-hop that I can appreciate is its linguistic sophistication. It's not exactly lyrical, though; it's more like verbal variation on the rhythm. So maybe it is the same thing after all.)

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#208

Post by [deleted] »

tjr wrote: post #165
fnid2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't start listening to lyrics until I was in my mid twenties and I have no musical talent or education. When I heard The Beatles Imagine was banned in some places, I thought, "Why? It's just a song." And then years later I actually listened to it and understood. One of my girlfriends told me, "I've started listening to jazz, I really like it!" So for her birthday, I got her "Kind of Blue" and she hated it. Shock…

http://www.jazzoasis.com/methenyonkennyg.htm

[deleted]

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#209

Post by Radix »

nerme wrote: post #125

I take some issue with the basic thesis. I don't think you can outright separate the appreciation of music in to two camps, that of the musical content and that of the lyrical content. Much as in poetry, the sounds and rhythm of the words are an integral part of what makes a good melody. Hip-hop might actually be the ultimate example of this. Sure, there is content, but it is mainly about the flow of the lyrics. The…

Most detractors don't want to know that this world exists and sure as hell don't want to have anything to do with it.

I just can't relate to it at all. It isn't so much that I don't want to hear it exists as I don't know how to believe it exists. To me it sounds like a culture self inflicting damage. I've looked a little for something I really like in hip-hop, but can't find anything I really like. Radio hip-hop causes me discomfort. I don't like t-pain (how I wish for the death of auto-tune). I can't listen to lyrical music without listening to the lyrics and I can't relate to hip-hop. (Actually I really like Lupe Fiasco, don't always relate, but with him it's okay.)

Also, ob-la-di-ob-la-da isn't non-sensical in the same way 'my sharona' is. It's a non-sense phrase that gives weight to the light hearted music and simple message of "life goes on" leaving the listener to imply the 'just keep going's and 'life is good's.

Re: Why most people don't like jazz

#210

Post by zach »

sp332 wrote: post #43
dan_sim wrote: post #27

I'm a musician myself who used to play jazz. The problem with jazz is that is considered by the people who listen to it like "pure art" when it is just a style of music. Jazz (and classical) is elevated higher than other form of music and music teachers will expect a good musician to play jazz. If jazz lovers would stop thinking at themselves as "higher educated" and jazz would go back to the people who want enjoy a…

Wynton Marsalis says "When the music stopped being about dancing, people stopped listening." I never completely bought it, but I like the sentiment anyway :-)

Basically, jazz musicians were replaced by DJs.

At some point, house parties didn't invite a piano player. At some point you could just have someone "putting on some records" for people to dance to at a wedding reception or big event. At some point musically-inclined kids started getting turntables instead of a trumpet.

Good times and jazz used to be in the same places, but by now they only see each other on special occasions. Too bad, because jazz was made for good times and it's not the same otherwise.

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