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Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

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201–210 of 318 posts

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#201

Are there any alternative treatments of pain that don't involve drugs? for ex http://www.570news.com/2016/03/06/waterloo-man-praises-local...

VR simulations of cold environments are seeing success for burn victims.

http://www.firsthand.com/portfolio/pain.html

https://www.hitl.washington.edu/projects/vrpain/

I've heard of Mindfulness Meditation being used to change the experience of pain from an act of suffering to an act of simple awareness. I don't know how widespread that technique is deployed though...

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an alcoholic. I’ve cut back on my use significantly, and I’m currently in a period of abstinence. Because alcohol is legal and socially accepted, it’s entirely my responsibility to manage my behaviour and keep my use to non-problematic levels. Not everyone has the social support to make that happen. I think legalisation would be beneficial, as you say, because the criminal justice system does not serve addicts. H…

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…

Hardly.

What happens if someone is irresponsible and they drive recklessly, ending up in a rolled over car in a ditch somewhere, trapped. Should society just say "well, they brought that on themselves, fuck 'em"? As a society we've decided that the appropriate thing to do in such situations is to expend collective resources to help them, providing rescue and hospitalization as necessary. Just as when someone recklessly mishandles flammable materials in their home and burns their own house down. Just as when someone decides to commit suicide.

There is a social responsibility to help one another, and we've consistently bought into that responsibility along many fronts, even when individuals get themselves into trouble through their own errors or choices. In the long run it turns out to be a net benefit to society for a lot of reasons, because often times it can put people on the path to turning their behavior around, and often times people make mistakes and learn the error of their ways. Also, addressing social responsibilities earlier (in this case, at the addiction stage) can save money down the road by avoiding the costs of other social responsibilities later (e.g. emergency medical care). But if society doesn't reach out then those people may not get that opportunity to become productive members of society, and they may end up seeing a society that doesn't value them and is adversarial to them, which is an encouragement to reciprocate.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#203

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

The only problem is a short-term fix.

The government legalizing drugs and taxes them heavily. AT some point the cost of the "good stuff" is going to go up and eventually cost more than the street stuff. It's already happening in California and Washington. Street dealers have seen little if any dent in their customer base.

Legalizing drugs is not the answer, it just makes them more readily available. The same people who wonder why pot is illegal and alcohol is illegal because alcohol kills more people every year - are arguing the same thing for legalizing drugs. At some point, there is no long term benefit unless you count the millions in tax money collected.

So then you have to ask yourself, do the tax revenues outweigh the benefits of legalizing all drugs? Surely more people will die if their legalized, just as people argue is the case with alcohol today.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#204

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

Missing the point. Not an issue of illegal drugs, instead an issue of government job programs built up around making drugs illegal.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#205
It's troubling the way this article presents the issue. Treating chronic pain is an enormously complex problem that clinicians have to deal with, especially as it gets bound up with collateral pitfalls of drug dependence, politics of health care delivery systems and conflicting pressures from patients, government regulators and others.

While unethical prescribers (not all are physicians) contribute significantly to rising misuse of opioids, the vast majority of practitioners want to do what's best for patients. As the article notes, there are few options for managing chronic pain, leaving opioids the only realistic choice in many instances.

None of the providers I know think opioids are preferable, but more like a necessary evil. They prescribe opioids sparingly, reluctantly, diligently. Patients have told me it's become increasingly difficult to get prescriptions for quite modest doses of opioid agents they've used for years without dose escalation. The tendency to throw babies out with the bathwater is not unique to this situation, but no less problematic.

Blaming pharmaceutical companies doesn't seem a constructive approach. Probably there's a lot of R&D going on in this domain without much success, meaning it's a very hard problem to solve. I'm certain that a major breakthrough would be eagerly marketed, highly likely the profit margins would be huge. Meanwhile, we're left with the status quo, and manufacturers are meeting market demands. Isn't that how our economy works? Pharma sales are already more highly regulated than nearly all other industries, what more should be done?

Few legal drugs are as controlled in the US as schedule II opioids. If there were no such controls it's likely that the number of overdose-related deaths would be higher than it is. No one knows what solution will work, the need to be being careful about changing "rules" should be obvious.

The article's advocacy of "medical marijuana" as an alternative is IMO inappropriate. Simply enough, research on the uses of cannabis components for pain treatment is in very early stages. Specific indications and side-effect risks are inadequately understood. Recommending use of these components as treatments for pain is premature.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…

>>Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? Suposing that it doesn't, doing nothing would be a hell of lot cheaper and easier than what we are doing now. Opiodes are derived from cheap agricultural products. A tablet of herion needn't cost more than asprin. The explicit goal of federal enforcment agencies is to raise pri…

> and it's not helping anyone except the sprawling profession of drug-warriors, and the black market gangsters

High prices are reducing drug usage. That's basic economics. Food is cheap, so people eat a lot and get fat. Alcohol is cheap, so people drink a lot and destroy themselves. It's not hard to deduce what cheap heroin would do.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#207
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opiate pain relief is orders of magnitude better than marijuana.

It's more orders of magnitude more dangerous and addictive (in that marijuana is almost impossible to OD on, and isn't addictive at all). Marijuana is certainly not the magical silver bullet some make it out to be, but it's incredibly effective for many people whose only other recourse would be opiates.

FYI, cannabis certainly can be addictive, just without serious physical dependance. And even on the mentally addictive side, obviously far less than opiates - but certainly there are people who fit the definition of being addicted to weed.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say the argument falls apart. We have an obligation to help these people no matter what. We already spend lots of money trying to help them, even though we don't do a very good job of it. That would not change. The libertarian argument against prohibition boils down to this: The government can't stop people from doing anything, it can only punish people after they've done it. Substance abuse is something w…

> The libertarian argument against prohibition boils down to this: The government can't stop people from doing anything, it can only punish people after they've done it. Substance abuse is something we'd really rather people didn't do I am not a libertarian, but I have worked in drug policy reform advocacy groups, and a number of my colleagues were libertarians. This is not at all an accurate description of the proto…

I didn't mean to insinuate that libertarian-leaning individuals universally abhor substance abuse and believe that the government should do something about it. I mean that the argument is if the government wants to reduce substance abuse, any attempts to accomplish this through force of law are futile.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an alcoholic. I’ve cut back on my use significantly, and I’m currently in a period of abstinence. Because alcohol is legal and socially accepted, it’s entirely my responsibility to manage my behaviour and keep my use to non-problematic levels. Not everyone has the social support to make that happen. I think legalisation would be beneficial, as you say, because the criminal justice system does not serve addicts. H…

Why should your drug use, or anyone else's, create obligations for other people to support you, treat you, and help you overcome addiction? The libertarian case for legalizing drugs falls apart if society has to take responsibility for providing support systems as a reaction to the actions of individual drug users. Frankly, most people would rather continue to ban drugs than pay for treatment for people who abuse the…

Your initial question startled me to my core ... it's the kind of question which reminds me why there are such deep divides between humans.

Maybe it's a question of ideology or lack of experience. Possibly you've never seen a friend caught in the web of addiction and so have never understood the deep desire to support someone, to treat someone, to help them overcome addiction.

Having understood the mechanisms by which a person can descend into addiction and criminality, I'll take the legalisation of drugs with an associated support structure over the simple banning and criminalisation of the drug users any day.

I'd also suggest that the status quo you speak of is actually changing before your very eyes.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because your addiction is also your wife's problem, your parent's problem, your company's problem. Addiction affects more than just the addict. And addicts are in need of help - while it is easy to think that "they like being high, it's their choice", in fact the addicts hate their habit more than anything, yet they can't stop using without external help. Would you help a person with a broken leg ? Why ? Well, that's…

If they broke their leg while doing something that endangered not only themself, but their family, their friends, and society on a whole, I might not jump at an opportunity to help them.

I would. Sometimes people do stuff that doesn't make sense to you as a rational response to factors that you're not aware of. When someone needs help for something that they did to themselves, I always assume that's the case, because it mostly always is.
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