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Men in committed, romantic relationships have lower testosterone

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

21–30 of 50 posts

Re: Men in committed, romantic relationships have lower testosterone

#21
post #6

[deleted]

Why is it every time a scientific paper is posted to HN the first few comments point out the tired "correlation != causation" or some other catch phrase?

It's a peer reviewed paper, by actual researchers and scientists. I'm 99.99% sure they are aware that correlation isn't causation.

Furthermore, nowhere in the abstract does it draw any conclusions at all, it merely gives the results. The only people drawing conclusions are you and the other people posting tired cliches.

Re: Men in committed, romantic relationships have lower testosterone

#22
post #6

[deleted]

> If they don't this isn't science. It's marketing.

Reporting observations doesn't make them unscientific. Science doesn't leap from nothing to perfectly teased-out causality. Incomplete results are still useful, as they attract attention to possibilities that require further explanation.

Put another way: science isn't a waterfall project.

Re: Men in committed, romantic relationships have lower testosterone

#23
A lot of comments are missing a basic fact of how science works. In science we have a theory, make predictions, then stress test them.

This is one study examining a theory which we have various lines of evidence for. It is not supposed to prove the theory - just test one prediction. It is not supposed to be the end of research on this topic. It is not supposed to be final. Criticizing it for any of those things is a demonstration that you do not understand how science is supposed to function.

For some of the background on this particular theory I highly recommend reading https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/2009... and the follow-up https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/2009.... (If you want to get to the point, it is probably better to start with the follow-up.)

Re: Men in committed, romantic relationships have lower testosterone

#24
post #12

The paper's flaw is that it doesn't look at other potential confounders. Here is a simple, but important one: Is there a difference between the amount of sleep that partnered and unpartnered people get? (My experience is lots less sleep when partnered.) It's important because testosterone production depends on pulsatile secretions of other hormones from the pituitary gland that occur during sleep. So, getting less sl…

I take it that you read the paper. Can you give us a tldr that has a bit more than this abstract?

Re: Men in committed, romantic relationships have lower testosterone

#25
I see no problem with the Wording of this study. Firstly the study is not trying to go so far as to determine the reasons for such results. That is it is not statinng the reason behind why ltrs have lower testosterone.

Instead it is seeking to determine "[...] whether being in such a relationship (rather than being married) is the meaningful predictor of male testosterone levels."

Emphasis on meaningful predictor.

Re: Men in committed, romantic relationships have lower testosterone

#26
(Sample of 1). I think my personal experience would seem to indicate so. I've been in a committed relationship for 2 years. But sometimes the wife travels, and I hang out with my single friends, going to bars, flirting with chicks, etc. And I find that I'm a lot more 'affectionate' after this episode. Could it be that I miss the wife so much? I have noticed a difference between when I do the bar scene, and when I don't.

Re: Men in committed, romantic relationships have lower testosterone

#27
I have access to the article. This statement is key: "By increasing libido, higher T may encourage mateseeking behavior."

Of course testosterone drops when you find a mate. You don't have to fight for one any more.

They go on to show that it further decreases when you have children. Since virility is affected by T levels, it's a good hypothesis that having kids is likely a trigger to reduce the risk-seeking behavior in males after children are born.

It's kind of a "no duh" result in that light, and they sought to find evidence that supports this hypothesis. However, they are clear to state that they cannot address causation directly.

"High-T men may be less likely to enter stable, romantic relationships. Additionally, affiliative interactions with a partner may decrease T levels, in turn reducing mating effort. We also expect T variation within the group of paired men to be consistent with variation in mating effort, although we are not able to test this with our data set. For example, it may be that paired-male T levels will be highest during times of sexual activity with a partner (as suggested in Hirschenhauser et al., 2002) or that variation in the strength of the pair bond might explain variance in T levels among paired individuals. These are all topics for which longitudinal data would be of great help in teasing apart cause and effect."

Re: Men in committed, romantic relationships have lower testosterone

#28

I have access to the article. This statement is key: "By increasing libido, higher T may encourage mateseeking behavior." Of course testosterone drops when you find a mate. You don't have to fight for one any more. They go on to show that it further decreases when you have children. Since virility is affected by T levels, it's a good hypothesis that having kids is likely a trigger to reduce the risk-seeking behavior…

The nice thing about "no duh" results is that, every once in a while, something unexpected happens. And then, if you're lucky, a new glimpse of the world happens.

Re: Men in committed, romantic relationships have lower testosterone

#29

I have access to the article. This statement is key: "By increasing libido, higher T may encourage mateseeking behavior." Of course testosterone drops when you find a mate. You don't have to fight for one any more. They go on to show that it further decreases when you have children. Since virility is affected by T levels, it's a good hypothesis that having kids is likely a trigger to reduce the risk-seeking behavior…

The nice thing about "no duh" results is that, every once in a while, something unexpected happens. And then, if you're lucky, a new glimpse of the world happens.

Science is built on layers and layers of dull data collection (like this one). But yah, a no-duh result that doesn't come through is fun.

Re: Men in committed, romantic relationships have lower testosterone

#30

I have access to the article. This statement is key: "By increasing libido, higher T may encourage mateseeking behavior." Of course testosterone drops when you find a mate. You don't have to fight for one any more. They go on to show that it further decreases when you have children. Since virility is affected by T levels, it's a good hypothesis that having kids is likely a trigger to reduce the risk-seeking behavior…

A good way to check for whether or not a new piece of information is interesting is to ask, "Would I be surprised if the opposite happened?"

Would you be surprised if the test subjects' testosterone was observed to be independent of relationship status?

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