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I would have hired Doug, but...

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Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#21

I'm 30 now (from time to time I feel that I've already lived enough and am mostly done), the idea of expecting at least 30 productive years ahead of me is intriguing.

> I'm 30 now (from time to time I feel that I've already lived enough and am mostly done)

This is the most absurd sentence I've read in weeks. Wow, man. Talk to some people a bit older than you, maybe, and realize that you haven't done anything.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#22

I'm 30 now (from time to time I feel that I've already lived enough and am mostly done), the idea of expecting at least 30 productive years ahead of me is intriguing.

That's amazing. I just turned 50 and I not only expect, but look forward to 30+ more productive years.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#23
post #20
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A trap, compared to what? Is plumbing a trap? Is finance a trap? Is hairstyling a trap?

Exactly. How is this different from any other profession? Developers can be so myopic. The narcissism in our industry really drives me up the wall. The only other industry that is this way, that I've seen, is the entertainment industry. The denizens of which also seem to suffer from this idea that they are totally unique and none of the plebeian hordes can possibly relate to what they go through.

Seems to fit Maslow's hierarchy of needs pretty well. Being a programmer mostly provides for the physiological needs (food and shelter), but it doesn't necessarily offer much else. It's natural and healthy that people also strive for financial security, belonging, esteem, and self-actualization.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#24
post #13

When I was a young man, a slightly older associate told me that "programming is a trap". What he meant is that if you are relatively smart, you can get a CS degree, get good at it, and go earn a fantastic income right out of school. I heard the words. I understood the words. I agreed with the words. Even now, 30 years later, I keep asking "is this a trap that I choose to remain in?" I still love programming, but it i…

A trap, compared to what? Is plumbing a trap? Is finance a trap? Is hairstyling a trap?

Plumber know all about traps.

http://www.homeharmonizing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/si...

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#25

When I was a young man, a slightly older associate told me that "programming is a trap". What he meant is that if you are relatively smart, you can get a CS degree, get good at it, and go earn a fantastic income right out of school. I heard the words. I understood the words. I agreed with the words. Even now, 30 years later, I keep asking "is this a trap that I choose to remain in?" I still love programming, but it i…

the fuck! This is like someone telling you your fiancée is a trap, because she is amazing and perfect for you, you have everything in common and you will end up happy and together forever. like a black hole of perfect happiness - you'd better turn away before you're past the event horizon. Odd advice to say the least. :)

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#26

I am 55 and have been programming computers since 1975 when I was 15 years old. Do the math, I have been programming now for 40 years. Recently, I had a conversation with someone else about this topic and I told them that I have never been so excited about my career, the field of computer science, and most importantly the opportunities that exist today in the field of technology. The excitement surrounding too many t…

I am 53 and started programming in 1977. I feel EXACTLY the same as you.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#27

When I was a young man, a slightly older associate told me that "programming is a trap". What he meant is that if you are relatively smart, you can get a CS degree, get good at it, and go earn a fantastic income right out of school. I heard the words. I understood the words. I agreed with the words. Even now, 30 years later, I keep asking "is this a trap that I choose to remain in?" I still love programming, but it i…

Do you mean it as a trap financially speaking? e.g. after certain age your salary stagnates, and your 'hireability' is reduced dramaticlly (ageism comes to mind). If so, I agree that might be true in some cases (anecdotically speaking), but not only for programming. But if you love it, what is the non financial cost of 'leaving the trap'? Isn't the real trap not improving/advancing in the things that really matter to you, because of things you can't or are very hard to control?

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#28
post #13

When I was a young man, a slightly older associate told me that "programming is a trap". What he meant is that if you are relatively smart, you can get a CS degree, get good at it, and go earn a fantastic income right out of school. I heard the words. I understood the words. I agreed with the words. Even now, 30 years later, I keep asking "is this a trap that I choose to remain in?" I still love programming, but it i…

A trap, compared to what? Is plumbing a trap? Is finance a trap? Is hairstyling a trap?

I get your point and agree with it. I've said it many times myself. But people don't think in terms of mastering a craft and spending a productive life practicing it. In the modern world if you're not on a trajectory toward the 1% you're losing. In that sense most engineering fields are "traps" because if you stay an engineer you aren't going any further up the ladder. I'm a craftsperson, and I still practice the craft of building software systems professionally, every day, even though I've been doing it for twenty years. That's one thing that hasn't changed. Another thing that hasn't really changed in twenty years is my salary. I understand and accept that, but if you don't know that will be a consequence of being essentially in a trade then I can understand how you might come to feel stuck.

Re: I would have hired Doug, but...

#30
post #20
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A trap, compared to what? Is plumbing a trap? Is finance a trap? Is hairstyling a trap?

Exactly. How is this different from any other profession? Developers can be so myopic. The narcissism in our industry really drives me up the wall. The only other industry that is this way, that I've seen, is the entertainment industry. The denizens of which also seem to suffer from this idea that they are totally unique and none of the plebeian hordes can possibly relate to what they go through.

I don't think it's the developers being myopic. For the most part, it's management that views development as a young person's game and encourages people to move out of the technical track and into the management track. If companies viewed programming as a long term career, they would put the pay scales in place to treat it as such. It's only a "trap" in the respect that in many (not all) places your pay maxes out as a programmer faster than it does as a manager. I don't think it's most developer's choice for it to be that way.
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