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Anti-intellectualism in American Culture

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Re: Anti-intellectualism in American Culture

#21

Post by dhimes »

Yes, anti-intellectualism exists in the US (Canada? Other Americas? I don't know). It always has.

That doesn't mean it's the prevalent thought. But intellectualism is hard, anti-intellectualism, as in hiding behind a doctrine that has been "thought out" for you (say by a church or a political party) is far easier. If you adopt what others say, you immediately belong to a social network and have all the "answers" to the hard questions. If you have to think for yourself, the road is much more lonely and difficult.

Re: Anti-intellectualism in American Culture

#22

Post by curi »

timr wrote: post #19
curi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good intentions aren't good enough. Schooling has a tradition of imparting some knowledge, but also some irrationalities. Primarily it is coming under attack because it has trouble changing as fast as modern life changes, so the knowledge being imparted is less accurately what people want. But also, one can make very serious criticisms of schools, including colleges, based on the irrationalities they cause in student…

You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Every established institution has trouble being nimble; every established institution can be accused of certain "irrationalities". No offense, but your comment doesn't pass my smell test: you're quick to launch into an attack on grades, tests and authority, but you're slow to acknowledge that those grades, tests and authority are actually helpful to most students. I'm…

Indeed other traditions have flaws as well. I did not say schooling should be immediately abolished, or throw anything out. But schooling should definitely be reformed, and people are right to criticize it.

The anecdote about your personal experience is, of course, irrelevant. It seemed to help you, but we don't know if it did or not compared to alternatives you did not experience.

I agree that being able to deal with bullshit is a marketable skill. But surely it is not a path everyone should take. And it is a way of life we should wish to become less common and less useful.

Re: Anti-intellectualism in American Culture

#24

Post by [deleted] »

curi wrote: post #22
timr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Every established institution has trouble being nimble; every established institution can be accused of certain "irrationalities". No offense, but your comment doesn't pass my smell test: you're quick to launch into an attack on grades, tests and authority, but you're slow to acknowledge that those grades, tests and authority are actually helpful to most students. I'm…

Indeed other traditions have flaws as well. I did not say schooling should be immediately abolished, or throw anything out. But schooling should definitely be reformed, and people are right to criticize it. The anecdote about your personal experience is, of course, irrelevant. It seemed to help you, but we don't know if it did or not compared to alternatives you did not experience. I agree that being able to deal wit…

[deleted]

Re: Anti-intellectualism in American Culture

#25

Post by vitaminj »

angryprofessor wrote: post #18
timr wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

College may or may not "live up to it's ideal" [sic] for some people, but it's still the most efficient way for the vast majority of the population to learn. Regardless of what you may feel about particular schools, courses or professors, if you value knowledge as a virtue, I don't see how you can be hostile toward an institution that exists to advance education. Also, it's not a formal argument, but look at the mode…

I'm hostile to colleges (and recruiters), though I don't think I count as anti-intellectual (my job is basic research). My reason for opposing colleges (and recruiters) is simple: colleges/recruiters are middlemen sitting between you and the job you want. They may add some value, although in my view it is minimal (and certainly not worth the cost). But the main reason most people go to college/recruiters is simply be…

Yes agree completely. I've long been in favour of bringing back the apprenticeship system for professionals (in conjunction with tertiary education) - well at least for engineering.

In Australia, we used to have this - as an engineering cadet, you worked for a company while going to uni as well. Not only can you directly apply what you learn at work, but there is also a motivational factor for learning (seeing as you have a practical context for the theory).

A personal anecdote - I remember learning about generators and power transformers and thinking what the hell do these things even look like? It wasn't until I graduated that I actually saw them in action. I still feel that if I was actually working on them then, I'd certainly have had more incentive / motivation to learn. As it was, I had to go back and re-learn everything on the job. I've spoken to many other engineers and graduates since, and most have agreed and had similar experiences.

Universities were traditionally a feeder system for research and academia (and learning for the sake of learning), but these days it has become a prerequisite for industry. Clearly there is some misalignment between the needs of industry and academia.

Re: Anti-intellectualism in American Culture

#26

Post by aswanson »

vitaminj wrote: post #25
angryprofessor wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hostile to colleges (and recruiters), though I don't think I count as anti-intellectual (my job is basic research). My reason for opposing colleges (and recruiters) is simple: colleges/recruiters are middlemen sitting between you and the job you want. They may add some value, although in my view it is minimal (and certainly not worth the cost). But the main reason most people go to college/recruiters is simply be…

Yes agree completely. I've long been in favour of bringing back the apprenticeship system for professionals (in conjunction with tertiary education) - well at least for engineering. In Australia, we used to have this - as an engineering cadet, you worked for a company while going to uni as well. Not only can you directly apply what you learn at work, but there is also a motivational factor for learning (seeing as you…

That was one of my primary gripes with my engineering education; a degree in a pragmatic field should have some relation to what is going on in the field currently. I can certainly appreciate theory and abstraction, but was completely shocked upon entering practice that most of what I learned was inapplicable and impractical.

Re: Anti-intellectualism in American Culture

#28

Post by michaelneale »

icky wrote: post #6
timr wrote: post #4

Given the prevalence of "college is for suckers" comments in this forum, I'm surprised that you need to ask.

Little known fact: the mortarboard, or "thinking cap", grants all college graduates uncanny powers of logic and memory. It is impossible to become an intellectual without one.

Ssshhh.. you aren't supposed to share that.

Re: Anti-intellectualism in American Culture

#29

Post by matth »

timr wrote: post #16
aswanson wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Critism of college in terms of what it proclaims to be and what it is, I think, is as healthy as self criticism. You could argue that criticising college is a form of hyper-intellectualism, in which case the person criticising makes the observation that it does not live up to it's ideal in many cases.

College may or may not "live up to it's ideal" [sic] for some people, but it's still the most efficient way for the vast majority of the population to learn. Regardless of what you may feel about particular schools, courses or professors, if you value knowledge as a virtue, I don't see how you can be hostile toward an institution that exists to advance education. Also, it's not a formal argument, but look at the mode…

I don't see how you can be hostile toward an institution that exists to advance education

More accurately: exists with the intent to advance education. And this is where your argument falls apart.

Re: Anti-intellectualism in American Culture

#30

Post by neilk »

You would have to define what anti-intellectualism means first. And the USA compared to what?

Most people in the world live in cultures that have an uneasy or hostile relationship with their educated classes -- namely, traditional and authoritarian cultures.

I think it would be fair to say that Americans don't have a sort of automatic, institutional relationship with their elites. Let me put it this way. If Canadians heard that all of their scientists said that X was bad and we should stop it, they'd nod their collective heads and get about to implementing the changes. The scientists are considered to be on the side of our general interest and enlightenment. This is the way it goes in most Western democracies.

In the USA, there's no such automatic acceptance. The urbanized half of the country is similar to the other Western democracies, but there's another half that has no such allegiance. They look to their churches for such leadership, and in their estimation, urban elites have caused nothing but trouble.

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