11–20 of 39 posts
I don't know what you want to discuss, really. Yes, there is a strange element of anti-intellectualism in America. It stems from its form of capitalism and it's a shame really, because America has essentially lost its production capability, so if it doesn't compete intellectually, it's not going to compete at all.
Huh? Manufacturing output in the US is at record high levels. http://freetrade.org/pubs/pas/tpa-035es.html
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I think what is meant is that the US is not a manufacturing world leader and is not as high as it should/could be.
From the executive summary at the link I provided: "And despite all the stories about the erosion of U.S. manufacturing primacy, the United States remains the world's most prolific manufacturer--producing two and a half times more output than those vaunted Chinese factories in 2006."
I don't know what you want to discuss, really. Yes, there is a strange element of anti-intellectualism in America. It stems from its form of capitalism and it's a shame really, because America has essentially lost its production capability, so if it doesn't compete intellectually, it's not going to compete at all.
There is a healthy distrust of elites claiming authority on the basis of intellect and education. "We are in charge because we're smarter than you and know how to take care of you" really does fly in a lot of other countries. Call it "Mandarinism"; its hallmark is examinations and elite institutions. In America, opposition to this sort of thing goes back to the defeat of the Hamiltonians.
As for a general disdain for intellectual pursuits in the culture at large, that's just a bunch of bullshit. It's no different from any other country once you take demographics into account.
Given the prevalence of "college is for suckers" comments in this forum, I'm surprised that you need to ask.
There may be a fair amount of criticism of college as it exists today on news.YC, but I think it's also fair to say that the average poster here is not hostile to knowledge itself.
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There may be a fair amount of criticism of college as it exists today on news.YC, but I think it's also fair to say that the average poster here is not hostile to knowledge itself.
Regardless of one's position on "knowledge", criticism of college is a form of anti-intellectualism.
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Regardless of one's position on "knowledge", criticism of college is a form of anti-intellectualism.
I disagree. Critism of college in terms of what it proclaims to be and what it is, I think, is as healthy as self criticism. You could argue that criticising college is a form of hyper-intellectualism, in which case the person criticising makes the observation that it does not live up to it's ideal in many cases.
Also, it's not a formal argument, but look at the moderation on the posts: everything that dares to defend higher education is voted down, and everything that bashes it is voted up, regardless of content. The same will happen to this post, despite the fact that I've done nothing more than express my (entirely reasonable) opinion in as rational and thoughtful manner as I know how. That's anti-intellectualism.
(Finally, I think I need to add the following disclaimer: I'm not talking about the people who have minor gripes with college, or who look back in retrospect, and make critical judgments about the experience. You're right -- that's "healthy self-criticism". I'm referring to the people who insist that college is a waste of time, and who insinuate that formal education is some kind of trap. You may think that's a cartoonish generalization, but I see it all the time, here and elsewhere.)
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I disagree. Critism of college in terms of what it proclaims to be and what it is, I think, is as healthy as self criticism. You could argue that criticising college is a form of hyper-intellectualism, in which case the person criticising makes the observation that it does not live up to it's ideal in many cases.
College may or may not "live up to it's ideal" [sic] for some people, but it's still the most efficient way for the vast majority of the population to learn. Regardless of what you may feel about particular schools, courses or professors, if you value knowledge as a virtue, I don't see how you can be hostile toward an institution that exists to advance education. Also, it's not a formal argument, but look at the mode…
But also, one can make very serious criticisms of schools, including colleges, based on the irrationalities they cause in students, and their lack of understanding of how learning works.
For example, schools have heavy components of forcing students to do things "for their own good". That's the point of graded assignments and tests -- they help teachers monitor which students are doing as they were told, and help to exert pressure on those that don't.
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I disagree. Critism of college in terms of what it proclaims to be and what it is, I think, is as healthy as self criticism. You could argue that criticising college is a form of hyper-intellectualism, in which case the person criticising makes the observation that it does not live up to it's ideal in many cases.
College may or may not "live up to it's ideal" [sic] for some people, but it's still the most efficient way for the vast majority of the population to learn. Regardless of what you may feel about particular schools, courses or professors, if you value knowledge as a virtue, I don't see how you can be hostile toward an institution that exists to advance education. Also, it's not a formal argument, but look at the mode…
My reason for opposing colleges (and recruiters) is simple: colleges/recruiters are middlemen sitting between you and the job you want. They may add some value, although in my view it is minimal (and certainly not worth the cost). But the main reason most people go to college/recruiters is simply because it is difficult to get a job without them. And if you can bypass them, you are probably better off.
Colleges (unlike recruiters) also suck vast amounts of money from the countries scientific infrastructure, but that's a different issue.
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College may or may not "live up to it's ideal" [sic] for some people, but it's still the most efficient way for the vast majority of the population to learn. Regardless of what you may feel about particular schools, courses or professors, if you value knowledge as a virtue, I don't see how you can be hostile toward an institution that exists to advance education. Also, it's not a formal argument, but look at the mode…
Good intentions aren't good enough. Schooling has a tradition of imparting some knowledge, but also some irrationalities. Primarily it is coming under attack because it has trouble changing as fast as modern life changes, so the knowledge being imparted is less accurately what people want. But also, one can make very serious criticisms of schools, including colleges, based on the irrationalities they cause in student…
No offense, but your comment doesn't pass my smell test: you're quick to launch into an attack on grades, tests and authority, but you're slow to acknowledge that those grades, tests and authority are actually helpful to most students. I'm as curious and hard-working as anyone you'll meet, but there are still tons of things that I never would have learned, had I not had exams and grades to prod me along (and for the record, no, I didn't have the smoothest possible educational experience).
Bottom line: it doesn't take super-human effort to get through an undergraduate degree in a subject that you enjoy. If one can't summon the basic discipline to put up with the (minor) bullshit associated with a undergraduate education, then they're very likely going to be disappointed by the world outside of the ivory tower. The "real world" isn't exactly known for a lack of bullshit; dealing with it (i.e. having discipline and tenacity) is as marketable a skill as knowing how to code.
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Good intentions aren't good enough. Schooling has a tradition of imparting some knowledge, but also some irrationalities. Primarily it is coming under attack because it has trouble changing as fast as modern life changes, so the knowledge being imparted is less accurately what people want. But also, one can make very serious criticisms of schools, including colleges, based on the irrationalities they cause in student…
You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Every established institution has trouble being nimble; every established institution can be accused of certain "irrationalities". No offense, but your comment doesn't pass my smell test: you're quick to launch into an attack on grades, tests and authority, but you're slow to acknowledge that those grades, tests and authority are actually helpful to most students. I'm…
The "real world" isn't exactly known for a lack of bullshit; dealing with it (i.e. having discipline and tenacity) is as marketable a skill as knowing how to code.
A number of us here are young, ambitious, and have grand visions for "changing the world." Our only reasons for obedience to the university system is to achieve our goals. I call bullshit on the world. I want to change the world, not adapt to it. But cheers to you mate.