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I don’t know what to do, you guys
21–30 of 216 posts
Re: I don’t know what to do, you guys
#22To leftist politics, and the "social justice" movement in particular: separate the bullies from the revolutionaries. Shun the bullies; don't let them use your name. Then we'll stop being afraid of the name, and of the revolutionaries.
This is easy to beat: just go to the source. If there's a howling white man going on about injustice and how he's going to tell you about the struggles of women of color, First Nations and Imperialism.. ignore that person. Go talk to a (well.. several, actually) woman of color, member of a First Nation or a nation ravaged by European and/or American imperialism. "But what can I do as a white man/white women/generally…
So, I hung out on a forum called 'stuff white people do' for a while. I wanted to find out more about racism, and the forum host was white, along with the denizens being a mixed group (I didn't want to stick my nose into a place where it wasn't wanted).
Anyway, this exact thing you suggest was something that they explicitly had articles against. "PoC are tired of being asked about their experiences. Go read a book first, don't ask them". I was scolded by the host for suggesting that "asking people as a first resort over picking up a book" was a human thing, not a white thing born of privilege, and I was scolded for it. Several of the PoC in the forum were quite clear on how they felt (poorly) about being asked of their experience by people not familiar with it.
Until I hit that site, I thought 'white apologism' was a myth. But boy, if you self-identified as white and didn't meekly talk cap-in-hand about how you sucked, you were berated. My favourite post was where the moderator asked what could be done to improve the site, and myself (white male) and an asian female said the same thing (both dispassionately): that we felt we held different opinions to the mainstream of the site, and it was difficult to be heard. She had a number of users encouraging her to post more and feel welcome. I got read the riot act and was nearly banned from the site.
It's very much worth noting I did learn a lot from some of the users that site, and I certainly wouldn't tar others in the field from my experiences there, but boy, arseholes can come from all directions. Some of the users were actually interested in discussion and I did learn a lot from those (one of whom was the woman above), but the moderator was an utter moron. I felt sad because these are important issues, and that moderator and his ilk were more interested in shriving guilt and hand-wringing than finding equitable solutions.
Anyway, long waffle short: not all people of colour appreciate being asked about their experiences by well-meaning naifs.
Re: I don’t know what to do, you guys
#23I spent about ten years being an "ally" to feminism, to the LGBT community, to minorities, etc. And then my views drifted ever so slightly from the tried and true party lines. One day I said I thought it was wrong that Brandon Eich was forced out of Mozilla, I said I thought it was wrong the way he was treated. Immediately the decade spent arguing for gay rights and marriage equality disappeared and I became a bigot,…
Who are you sharing your views with that you are experiencing so much judgement, etc?
Are these comments on your blog, or real life friends, or both?
>politics are still left of centre
The whole left-right thing is really a false dichotomy. It sounds to me like you associated/associate with extremists of political correctness.
I hold some very progressive ideologies, but I have never faced ridicule if I don't "tow the line" as you are experiencing. But then again I don't blog or share my views that publicly.
Re: I don’t know what to do, you guys
#24I spent about ten years being an "ally" to feminism, to the LGBT community, to minorities, etc. And then my views drifted ever so slightly from the tried and true party lines. One day I said I thought it was wrong that Brandon Eich was forced out of Mozilla, I said I thought it was wrong the way he was treated. Immediately the decade spent arguing for gay rights and marriage equality disappeared and I became a bigot,…
It's worth remembering that one advantage right-side politics have is that they are passionate for the status quo. Left-side politics are passionate for change. And it's when people are passionate that they get into disagreement; it's much easier for lefties to disagree about what kind of change they want, than for righties to disagree about how they want things to stay the same...
Re: I don’t know what to do, you guys
#25I spent about ten years being an "ally" to feminism, to the LGBT community, to minorities, etc. And then my views drifted ever so slightly from the tried and true party lines. One day I said I thought it was wrong that Brandon Eich was forced out of Mozilla, I said I thought it was wrong the way he was treated. Immediately the decade spent arguing for gay rights and marriage equality disappeared and I became a bigot,…
most people are idiots, right or left, we're all stupid together!
Re: I don’t know what to do, you guys
#26I spent about ten years being an "ally" to feminism, to the LGBT community, to minorities, etc. And then my views drifted ever so slightly from the tried and true party lines. One day I said I thought it was wrong that Brandon Eich was forced out of Mozilla, I said I thought it was wrong the way he was treated. Immediately the decade spent arguing for gay rights and marriage equality disappeared and I became a bigot,…
"The Revolution devours its children"
Re: I don’t know what to do, you guys
#27To leftist politics, and the "social justice" movement in particular: separate the bullies from the revolutionaries. Shun the bullies; don't let them use your name. Then we'll stop being afraid of the name, and of the revolutionaries.
This is easy to beat: just go to the source. If there's a howling white man going on about injustice and how he's going to tell you about the struggles of women of color, First Nations and Imperialism.. ignore that person. Go talk to a (well.. several, actually) woman of color, member of a First Nation or a nation ravaged by European and/or American imperialism. "But what can I do as a white man/white women/generally…
This comment is incredibly racist, not to mention problematic on several other counts.
Racism is the view that the content of your mind is determined by your race. The Nazis believed that, and so does the person I am responding to.
Interestingly, Marx said something very similar: that the content of your mind is determined by your class. This is why large swathes of people have to be either wiped out or "re-educated" in Marxist countries.
Re: I don’t know what to do, you guys
#28I spent about ten years being an "ally" to feminism, to the LGBT community, to minorities, etc. And then my views drifted ever so slightly from the tried and true party lines. One day I said I thought it was wrong that Brandon Eich was forced out of Mozilla, I said I thought it was wrong the way he was treated. Immediately the decade spent arguing for gay rights and marriage equality disappeared and I became a bigot,…
Who are you sharing your views with that you are experiencing so much judgement, etc? Are these comments on your blog, or real life friends, or both? >politics are still left of centre The whole left-right thing is really a false dichotomy. It sounds to me like you associated/associate with extremists of political correctness. I hold some very progressive ideologies, but I have never faced ridicule if I don't "tow th…
> Who are you sharing your views with that you are experiencing so much judgement, etc?
You'd be surprised. I left the Bay for a handful of years, and when I came back half of my friends had become political radicals. There is no lack of people who will react badly if you don't share their views in detail.
Re: I don’t know what to do, you guys
#29To leftist politics, and the "social justice" movement in particular: separate the bullies from the revolutionaries. Shun the bullies; don't let them use your name. Then we'll stop being afraid of the name, and of the revolutionaries.
Thing is, when you feel bullied, why is that? Is it because people are trying to tackle issues that benefit you? Trying to get you to not be certain way simply for the sake/respect of others that are not like you? Is it because theyre being unnecesarily rude? I can comprehend how someone being rude leaves a bad taste, but it seems to me like most of the time bully is anyone who doesnt agree with you.
Often, the bully is someone who gets off on the feeling of power. That's what defines a bully, not that they disagree with you.
Re: I don’t know what to do, you guys
#30Like it does for a lot of things, I think feminism has its own lingo for this very problem, and it's called the lack of "101 spaces" -- as in spaces where you're learning "Feminism 101", or "Anti-racism 101", or whatever, spaces where the sort of basic questions that would be inappropriate in a graduate-level class are welcome and expected. A lot of activists are trying to effect some actual social change. That requi…
There is one point at which your analogy to pointers breaks down. After having studied pointers, you will never be in a position to disagree.
But you could come away from a class on feminism 101 disagreeing with many things.