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Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

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Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#21

Post by lfuller »

uptown wrote: post #16

The stats presented by the article are very myopic. Bikes are mobile objects that frequently travel between areas covered by multiple precincts. Rather than looking solely at the 5th precinct, they arguably should have presented a wider view of the city's records on bicycle activity. When you do that, it paints a very different picture of some of the statistics. For instance - "cyclist accidents that caused deaths" :…

That's not relevant to the discussion. This article was disputing a claim that "the 5th Pct. had a 115% increase in bicycle collisions this year", not that NYC in general had an increase.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#22

Post by seanp2k2 »

thenmar wrote: post #4
gohrt wrote: post #2

It's not a mathematical error when the number is completely fabricated to justify a policy change. That's just lying.

It's not really a policy change though is it? Aren't they enforcing laws that cyclists previously were breaking with impunity? I would like them to show their work too, but I don't really see the policy conspiracy angle to this.

Not sure about NY laws, but other states allow "Idaho stops" (treating stop signs as yields on bikes): http://www.treehugger.com/bikes/more-idaho-stop-and-why-cycl...

If you've ever commuted via bike, you probably understand how little sense it makes to stop at every sign and roll no lights.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#25

Post by seanp2k2 »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #15
dead10ck wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. No policies are changing. They're just putting more resources into enforcing existing laws.

They're rearranging the same resources from enforcing something else to enforcing traffic laws against bicyclists.

Because obviously, this is NYC's biggest problem. I can see the headlines now: "Cyclist Moving Violation Crime Wave Hits as Snowfall Begins, but NYPD Strikes Back"

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#26

Post by tedunangst »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #10
dead10ck wrote: post #5

Even if the numbers are completely made up, I'm not going to be outraged that police decided to enforce laws that cyclists need to be abiding by anyway.

It's about the opportunity cost. What other thing could the police be doing instead of giving traffic tickets to cyclists? After all, the best case outcome of doing so is to reduce pedestrian injuries from 1 per year to 0 per year, which isn't much of a benefit. 16000 people were injured and 178 killed by cars in NYC in 2013. That's a much richer hunting ground for police activity.

"Stop turning a blind eye" doesn't require that many new resources to enforce. The only opportunity cost is the time it takes the officer to write the ticket, which isn't much.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#27

Post by shittyanalogy »

I never really understood the value in ticketing cyclists, or jay walkers for that matter in NYC. Very few people are getting hurt, even in the densest metropolitan area in the country so why are we so worried about it? Because cyclists can be annoying sometimes? Also the city speed limit went down to 25 mph. Isn't this supposed to take care of many of the collisions? Those of us that are safe cyclists but run red lights are going to be discouraged from riding as it just takes too damn long to cycle around smoggy, loud NYC stopping at every goddamn light. But those of us that are aggressive ass-hole riders are just going to be more likely to unsafely try to evade the police. Which is not hard if you know what you're doing.

It doesn't appear to be about safety, as the statistics clearly indicate that it's currently safe. It appears to be about making money and possibly discourage cycling.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#28

Post by thenmar »

hoopism wrote: post #8
thenmar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a policy change though is it? Aren't they enforcing laws that cyclists previously were breaking with impunity? I would like them to show their work too, but I don't really see the policy conspiracy angle to this.

It's not like police are an inexhaustible resource. Resources allocated in one realm means a dip in another. Using bad stats to justify a reallocation should be alarming to local residents.

Are they actually allocating resources for this? I read it as the police would no longer be giving people a free pass where they used to

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#29

Post by ecopoesis »

Brian-Puccio wrote: post #20
Disruptive_Dave wrote: post #12

They actually started towards the end of the summer, at least here in Brooklyn. Hadn't seen a biker get pulled over for things like not coming to a complete halt at stops signs in 3 years I've been here. Witnessed about 5 of them in the span of 3 weeks, heard about plenty more. I'm all for it. Casual bikers around here are not exactly fun to deal with.

I think one of the issues is that lots of people play fast and loose with the rules when moving about ... whether it be walking, bicycling or driving. And it's so easy to say "well I use this mode and I notice the people who use THAT mode are constantly breaking the rules and that's not safe!". If there's a demand to enforce the rules more stringently in the name of safety, would those doing the demanding also want t…

I for one would love to see more enforcement of jaywalking. I drive through the intersection of Cambridge and First in Cambridge, MA by Lechmere almost every day, and the jaywalkers who ignore their lights to run for the trolley cause far more traffic problems and almost accidents and then cars or bikes.

Re: Is the NYPD About to Start Ticketing More Cyclists Due to a Mathematical Error?

#30

Post by madaxe_again »

There are lies, damned lies, and... you know the rest.

It's not necessarily a mathematical error. You can make any set of stats show pretty much anything you want. From that same data, one could conclude that collisions on bicycles only ever occur on intersections, and therefore we need to invest more in underpasses, which are completely safe, as this data shows no collisions in underpasses. Underpasses save lives.

Magic, eh?

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