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The Statistical Problem With Soccer

technologyreview.com

21–30 of 39 posts

Re: The Statistical Problem With Soccer

#21
post #7
post #2

All sports are like this - they try and eliminate it with multi game playoffs, but you can't do that with intense games like this.

The NBA, NHL, and Major League Baseball do exactly that. They eliminate with multi-game playoffs. Or do you mean soccer's intensity is like American Football, in that it is just too physically demanding to play that many games?

Exactly - also the nba nhl etc with multi game playoffs LESSEN the prob of a lesser team betting a better one - but it never goes away.

Re: The Statistical Problem With Soccer

#22
post #9

It's called football not soccer.

Correct. But we dumb North Americans need to make the distinction with the weird violent USA game, which almost everyone in Canada cares about, myself included.

Somehow, they convinced us it's important. I really want to know how they did that.

Re: The Statistical Problem With Soccer

#23
My biggest objection to this piece is the quantification of skill along one axis, "the good scale".

A beat B, B beat C, A loses to C should tell you that there most be something sophisticated going that your model isn't capturing.

American Football fans will surely remember when Vince Young was starting his career with the Titans and all the commentators had this standard line "He just wins games!" because his team was winning despite his terrible numbers.

This analysis doesn't strike me as any more substantial than that ridiculous phrase.

Re: The Statistical Problem With Soccer

#24
One obvious problem with the approach taken is that soccer teams are not static. They change from game to game. They can start playing badly and improve during the competition, which could easily explain the observed behavior.

Another problem is that soccer really has a level of randomness that is considered a feature of the sport. We don't really expect that the best team (in technical terms) always win. In Brazil, people commonly say that "soccer is a little box full of surprises".

Re: The Statistical Problem With Soccer

#26

One obvious problem with the approach taken is that soccer teams are not static. They change from game to game. They can start playing badly and improve during the competition, which could easily explain the observed behavior. Another problem is that soccer really has a level of randomness that is considered a feature of the sport. We don't really expect that the best team (in technical terms) always win. In Brazil,…

Around Europe, we say : 'The ball is round and the game lasts 90 minutes. The rest is all theory'.

This means, more or less, that there are so many unknowns that trying to analyze the game is bullshit - just enjoy it. Even the quality of the grass can change the game, or the humidity. But of course, sport journalists make a living out of over-analyzing it.

Re: The Statistical Problem With Soccer

#27

Soccer is a low scoring game. It's not a "statistical problem", it's a feature. Treating it as "an experiment to determine which of the teams is the best" is not a good approach. There are a thousand contests in 90 minutes, but probably only two or three of them result in a goal, one of which may be from a penalty anyway. High scoring games are much better at determining the best team on the day. I believe that one o…

I can't remember how many games I stopped watching 5 minutes before the end, because I was disappointed, only to later discover that the team I supported scored. Even better are score, counter-score, then score again.

Re: The Statistical Problem With Soccer

#28
post #8

I think this is at the root of what really bugs (some) U.S. Americans about soccer, but they are unable to express it. Sports popular in the U.S. almost seem designed to allow for statistical analysis. Baseball is the ultimate game for a statistician, as you have data for every single pitch thrown and the outcome. American Football breaks the game down into series of discrete events (downs) each of which has a numeri…

You can get a lot of statistics from a game of cricket, but it does not seem to have taken off in the U.S.

Re: The Statistical Problem With Soccer

#29
post #28
post #8

I think this is at the root of what really bugs (some) U.S. Americans about soccer, but they are unable to express it. Sports popular in the U.S. almost seem designed to allow for statistical analysis. Baseball is the ultimate game for a statistician, as you have data for every single pitch thrown and the outcome. American Football breaks the game down into series of discrete events (downs) each of which has a numeri…

You can get a lot of statistics from a game of cricket, but it does not seem to have taken off in the U.S.

Cricket and baseball are substitute goods. If you have one, you don't really need the other. For example, baseball hasn't taken off in the Commonwealth either.

Re: The Statistical Problem With Soccer

#30

I used to play a lot of cards. Like, a whole lot. Every now and then a card-playing friend of mine would complain about their luck, and I always answered the same way: "People don't gamble on Chess." So very quickly: > Their approach is to think of a soccer game as an experiment to determine which of two teams is the best. The question then is this: what is the probability that the outcome of the experiment truly rep…

People do gamble on chess... but I guess "people mostly prefer gambling on games like poker rather than gambling on chess" would be too long for a proverb.
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