Japanese Farmer Builds High-Tech Indoor Veggie Factory • Hacker News Board

Re: Japanese Farmer Builds High-Tech Indoor Veggie Factory

#21

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 10:35 PM UTC

tormeh wrote: post #12

corydominguez wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additional productivity gains might be made by operating the "indoor farm" within dense urban areas and thus closer to the consumer, thereby removing transportation costs associated with a typical farm.

Those are overblown. Modern mega-scale logistics are stunningly efficient. Food shipped by freight-ship and truck are supposedly more efficient with less polution than a local farmer driving hir* produce to market in a car. * I hate that term. So clumsy-sounding.

[deleted]

Re: Japanese Farmer Builds High-Tech Indoor Veggie Factory

#22

Post by Thiz » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 10:45 PM UTC

In average, one acre of any crop brings about a thousand dollars per year in revenue. With this method it would increase by 100-fold.

That's a real agricultural industrialization.

Re: Japanese Farmer Builds High-Tech Indoor Veggie Factory

#23

Post by ChuckMcM » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 10:49 PM UTC

Another lettuce farm. Does anyone have a part number for the LED growing lamps that GE makes, do they have a 'standard' version available? There wasn't anything relevant on their products page at gelighting.com (http://www.gelighting.com/LightingWeb/na/solutions/led-lamps...)

Re: Japanese Farmer Builds High-Tech Indoor Veggie Factory

#24

Post by GVIrish » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 10:51 PM UTC

tormeh wrote: post #12

corydominguez wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additional productivity gains might be made by operating the "indoor farm" within dense urban areas and thus closer to the consumer, thereby removing transportation costs associated with a typical farm.

Those are overblown. Modern mega-scale logistics are stunningly efficient. Food shipped by freight-ship and truck are supposedly more efficient with less polution than a local farmer driving hir* produce to market in a car. * I hate that term. So clumsy-sounding.

Sure, anything at industrial scale is going to me more efficient than a mom and pop operation. But with a system like this you've got scale and proximity. Instead of having a network of trucks delivering lettuce from California thousands of miles cross country, you can have a small fleet of trucks delivering lettuce within a 2 hour radius. Less spoilage, far less gas, and far less planning and logistics.

This could be huge in cities with abandoned/run down industrial districts that have been hard hit by globalization.

Re: Japanese Farmer Builds High-Tech Indoor Veggie Factory

#25

Post by ChuckMcM » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 10:53 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #3

kaonashi wrote: post #2

The LED grow lights seem to be a real game-changer; the most modest estimates put the power savings at ~%50 (over HPS).

However in the article's example there is only negative power savings as the plants used to get fed for free from the sun, now they're consuming electricity from the grid. Now that might be recoverable via reductions in waste and lower water consumption (see article) but it isn't automatically a net win, it might be a net loss overall. Need data.

It uses fractional water resources, which from a substitution value in California at least, is a net 'savings'. Should we ever get to a point where power is massively abundant (fusion) the water use will be a factor as it is easier to transport electrons that desalinated water.

Re: Japanese Farmer Builds High-Tech Indoor Veggie Factory

#26

Post by Retric » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 11:01 PM UTC

Thiz wrote: post #22

In average, one acre of any crop brings about a thousand dollars per year in revenue. With this method it would increase by 100-fold. That's a real agricultural industrialization.

Electricity is not free. This is a stupid waste of resources that might "work" through a vary large government subsidy.

Re: Japanese Farmer Builds High-Tech Indoor Veggie Factory

#27

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 11:03 PM UTC

antsam wrote: post #10

I wonder if they can use this tech in the space station or maybe a mission to Mars? Doesn't seem to need much water and we can probably use solar power to power the lights?

[deleted]

Re: Japanese Farmer Builds High-Tech Indoor Veggie Factory

#28

Post by idibidiart » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 11:13 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #26

Thiz wrote: post #22

In average, one acre of any crop brings about a thousand dollars per year in revenue. With this method it would increase by 100-fold. That's a real agricultural industrialization.

Electricity is not free. This is a stupid waste of resources that might "work" through a vary large government subsidy.

Solar is not free above sunk cost? We've ran a whole house in AZ exclusively on solar the last 7 years, with a ~$40K investment. Would this consume so much electricity that the initial cost will not be recouped before the solar system degrades beyond use? What's the math you're inferring from?

Re: Japanese Farmer Builds High-Tech Indoor Veggie Factory

#29

Post by sitkack » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 11:18 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #25

Someone1234 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However in the article's example there is only negative power savings as the plants used to get fed for free from the sun, now they're consuming electricity from the grid. Now that might be recoverable via reductions in waste and lower water consumption (see article) but it isn't automatically a net win, it might be a net loss overall. Need data.

It uses fractional water resources, which from a substitution value in California at least, is a net 'savings'. Should we ever get to a point where power is massively abundant (fusion) the water use will be a factor as it is easier to transport electrons that desalinated water.

I an industrial setting, one could use a light pipe during the day augmented by LEDs on either side. In a near hermetic environment pests could be kept under control w/o chemicals.

Re: Japanese Farmer Builds High-Tech Indoor Veggie Factory

#30

Post by Retric » Thu, Jul 10, 2014, 11:22 PM UTC

idibidiart wrote: post #28

Retric wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electricity is not free. This is a stupid waste of resources that might "work" through a vary large government subsidy.

Solar is not free above sunk cost? We've ran a whole house in AZ exclusively on solar the last 7 years, with a ~$40K investment. Would this consume so much electricity that the initial cost will not be recouped before the solar system degrades beyond use? What's the math you're inferring from?

Solar is ~20% efficient LED's are less than ~40% efficient so you would need more land area for solar farms than you save by growing indoors. On top of that you need to pay for all your capital costs.

There are other issues, but if this was close to cost effective you would be seeing this in Iceland which gets little sunlight in the winter and has cheap energy costs. Instead they use suplimental lighting inside green houses to boost production.