Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects • Hacker News Board

Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects

#21

Post by dan_the_welder » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 5:11 PM UTC

mrshoe wrote: post #14

My college roommate's dad worked with microfinance companies in India. Every month, a representative from the company would go from town to town collecting monthly payments from the borrowers. Sometimes the borrower would claim that they could not pay. In that case, the collector was instructed to just sit down and wait for them to pay. The shame of having the collector sitting in their village was overwhelming, and…

You can still be an Anonymous Coward here if there is nothing in your user:about.

Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects

#22

Post by tedunangst » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 5:13 PM UTC

grandalf wrote: post #17

Kadin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself a "civil libertarian," in the sense of caring about the preservation of liberty -- but I don't have a problem with this. Well-placed targeted enforcement and surveillance are good things; without them, as people start to feel more and more threatened by crime, you start to get more demands for everpresent surveillance and UK-style CCTV. Using targeted surveillance on a case-by-case basis seems like…

I do have a bit of a problem with it. Suppose if rather than a truck it were a giant scarecrow with cameras, placed facing the house of people suspected of having committed a crime. Is the average person allowed to own a vehicle with cameras and park it outside the home of someone they don't like? It seems like blatant harassment.

"Is the average person allowed to own a vehicle with cameras and park it outside the home of someone they don't like?"

Yes.

Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects

#23

Post by calcnerd256 » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 5:15 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #19

jsteele wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are "civil libertarians"? People who value their civil liberties? People who are willing to do something to protect them? Whatever they are, you say you're not one. Interesting.

Who are "civil libertarians"? People who value their civil liberties? People who value civil liberties are civil libertarians in the same sense that people who value women are feminists. Whatever they are, you say you're not one. Correct. I am also not a feminist.

That analogy is so right, as far as I can tell. I think there is a big difference between falling under a label and self-identifying as it.

Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects

#24

Post by chrischen » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 5:15 PM UTC

grandalf wrote: post #17

Kadin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself a "civil libertarian," in the sense of caring about the preservation of liberty -- but I don't have a problem with this. Well-placed targeted enforcement and surveillance are good things; without them, as people start to feel more and more threatened by crime, you start to get more demands for everpresent surveillance and UK-style CCTV. Using targeted surveillance on a case-by-case basis seems like…

I do have a bit of a problem with it. Suppose if rather than a truck it were a giant scarecrow with cameras, placed facing the house of people suspected of having committed a crime. Is the average person allowed to own a vehicle with cameras and park it outside the home of someone they don't like? It seems like blatant harassment.

Yea but the people were being harassed by the illegal activity first. Also the truck was an eyesore for criminals. normal people would actually like it if cops were nearby preventin' crime.

Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects

#25

Post by chrischen » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 5:20 PM UTC

bharris wrote: post #20

dkarl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that this is designed specifically for when police don't want to do their job. They believe the people are "bad" and engaged in undesirable activity, but they can't be bothered to investigate and gather evidence of criminal activity. Instead, they want to make their lives miserable, on the principle that the threat of surveillance bothers the guilty, but not the innocent. And any sweet old lady can tag…

In the article, the police claimed to have tried all other methods of 'traditional' policing before resorting to the truck: "In the summer of 2006, police were brainstorming ways to rattle a suspected drug dealer. They had exhausted traditional strategies, including undercover operations, and were left empty-handed and frustrated. They decided to park a retired police car in front of the suspect's house."

That's how the idea started. Afterwards they used it to scare off the lady's grandchildren when she went on vacation.

Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects

#26

Post by grandalf » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 5:33 PM UTC

tedunangst wrote: post #22

grandalf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do have a bit of a problem with it. Suppose if rather than a truck it were a giant scarecrow with cameras, placed facing the house of people suspected of having committed a crime. Is the average person allowed to own a vehicle with cameras and park it outside the home of someone they don't like? It seems like blatant harassment.

"Is the average person allowed to own a vehicle with cameras and park it outside the home of someone they don't like?" Yes.

I know parking there is legal, but I suspect if the vehicle had cameras trained on the house it would be considered harassment.

Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects

#27

Post by grandalf » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 5:34 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #24

grandalf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do have a bit of a problem with it. Suppose if rather than a truck it were a giant scarecrow with cameras, placed facing the house of people suspected of having committed a crime. Is the average person allowed to own a vehicle with cameras and park it outside the home of someone they don't like? It seems like blatant harassment.

Yea but the people were being harassed by the illegal activity first. Also the truck was an eyesore for criminals . normal people would actually like it if cops were nearby preventin' crime.

Normal people always imagine that there is no way they would ever be considered criminal enough to themselves warrant such treatment... It sounds like this is your view.

Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects

#28

Post by calcnerd256 » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 5:40 PM UTC

dkarl wrote: post #13

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, if there are reports of criminal activities the cops should stay away and not look at what's going on, dam those meddling cops stopping criminals from doing their deals. Presumably you'd like patroling officers to be fitted with blindfolds to avoid them surveilling people from the street?

The problem is that this is designed specifically for when police don't want to do their job. They believe the people are "bad" and engaged in undesirable activity, but they can't be bothered to investigate and gather evidence of criminal activity. Instead, they want to make their lives miserable, on the principle that the threat of surveillance bothers the guilty, but not the innocent. And any sweet old lady can tag…

We need close-knit communities where good old boys are eager to enforce the nervous prejudices of the community using violence and intimidation anyway. We just need lots of such communities, with very varied nervous prejudices, including the occasional such community with a nervous prejudice against the situation I'm describing (an escape hatch within the system)

Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects

#29

Post by calcnerd256 » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 5:42 PM UTC

dan_the_welder wrote: post #21

mrshoe wrote: post #14

My college roommate's dad worked with microfinance companies in India. Every month, a representative from the company would go from town to town collecting monthly payments from the borrowers. Sometimes the borrower would claim that they could not pay. In that case, the collector was instructed to just sit down and wait for them to pay. The shame of having the collector sitting in their village was overwhelming, and…

You can still be an Anonymous Coward here if there is nothing in your user:about.

or if you have a spare openId lying around

Re: Cops Use Old Brink's Truck to Shame Suspects

#30

Post by gojomo » Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 5:53 PM UTC

tedunangst wrote: post #22

grandalf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do have a bit of a problem with it. Suppose if rather than a truck it were a giant scarecrow with cameras, placed facing the house of people suspected of having committed a crime. Is the average person allowed to own a vehicle with cameras and park it outside the home of someone they don't like? It seems like blatant harassment.

"Is the average person allowed to own a vehicle with cameras and park it outside the home of someone they don't like?" Yes.

That depends a lot on local laws an mores; reaction to Google Street View photos has been been far more negative in some jurisdictions than the US.

Also, to the extent focused surveillance reveals anything of interest -- times of comings and goings; activity behind windows; children's play activities -- I suspect most US jurisdictions would have a problem with 24-hour video surveillance of property you don't own.