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My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

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Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#21

Post by DannyBee »

keypusher wrote: post #4

I've always been particularly confused by the contract clauses which specify that all work of the employee during their time at the company is property of the company itself. Does this mean that if I develop some completely unrelated software in my spare time while working as a programmer at a large company, that the software I created at home also belongs to my employer? What if I was to write a book during that sam…

"I've always been particularly confused by the contract clauses which specify that all work of the employee during their time at the company is property of the company itself. Does this mean that if I develop some completely unrelated software in my spare time while working as a programmer at a large company, that the software I created at home also belongs to my employer? "

In most states, the answer is "yes, it probably does". It varies from state to state, of course, and the definition of "completely unrelated". In the nicer states, it's about what is related to your employers business, or the demonstrable/anticipated research and development of your employer. Most engineers get this very wrong, or have no idea about all the things their company does.

The only common country i'm aware of in which the answer is definitely "no, it belongs to you", is switzerland.

As for legal battles, plenty. Most of the time, the company wins. I'd say 70-30.

Usually because most companies are willing to come to arrangements to avoid litigation, so when they don't, it's often something egregious (one way or the other, be it company trying to claim something they shouldn't, or employee trying to sell something employer should definitely own).

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#22

Post by unexistance »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #20

Don't think, that in Germany the situation is that much better. We might not have those agreements in the contracts, since in Germany there are (luckily) many regulations what can be put into contracts. But the German law has also some specialties: For example, when you make an invention in your free time, even when it has nothing to do with your current job, you must first ask your employer, if he wants to buy the i…

well if you don't tell, they won't know :) use web's anonymity to full advantage

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#23

Post by Retric »

gkoberger wrote: post #7
keypusher wrote: post #4

I've always been particularly confused by the contract clauses which specify that all work of the employee during their time at the company is property of the company itself. Does this mean that if I develop some completely unrelated software in my spare time while working as a programmer at a large company, that the software I created at home also belongs to my employer? What if I was to write a book during that sam…

I dislike it (and most forward-thinking companies wouldn't risk scaring off people who are the type that work on their own time), however I can see the reasons. How do they know you did it at home, not during work hours? How do they know it didn't affect your work? If you're salaried, there aren't set start/stop times. How do they know they weren't paying you at the time you came up with the idea, or thought through…

The 'usual' distinction is how closely something is to the type of work your doing at the company. So, if your designing a CPU and you come up with a novel cashing algorithm it's owned by the company but if you come up with a novel shovel design it's independent. Which means there is still plenty of options to tinker in your own time but you can't sell an idea to a direct competitor.

The problem though is company's like IBM cover so many areas that things get vary fuzzy.

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#25

Post by PythonicAlpha »

dfa0 wrote: post #19
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #16

That is the reason, I am against the term "Intellectual Property". Ideas are (naturally) belonging to the person who had the ideal. "Intellectual property" in contrast is "owned" to those that have enough money to buy it. This notion of making more and more parts of human life own-able and thus putting a price tag on it, is just devaluating these parts and our own living. In result, we will be slaves of the big corpo…

Yeah, but the American dreams is to have one good idea and milk it for the rest of your natural life, then pass on the rights to your offspring who can milk it...and so on. That way you can exponentially create useless people.

Yeah, but the American dream does not function to much longer this way. Because more and more people are born in bad situations, they have to take jobs to earn some money to start -- sign such contracts ... and you are enslaved.

Even if you get rid of these ... Than you have a good idea, only to find, that your idea violates dozens of corporate patents ... and your idea is waste.

Thus the dream is just a shadow of the past ... and propaganda for a system that does not hold its promises any more.

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#26

Post by PythonicAlpha »

unexistance wrote: post #22
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #20

Don't think, that in Germany the situation is that much better. We might not have those agreements in the contracts, since in Germany there are (luckily) many regulations what can be put into contracts. But the German law has also some specialties: For example, when you make an invention in your free time, even when it has nothing to do with your current job, you must first ask your employer, if he wants to buy the i…

well if you don't tell, they won't know :) use web's anonymity to full advantage

When you file a patent, they will. And then they will drag you to court.

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#27

Post by goostavos »

gkoberger wrote: post #7
keypusher wrote: post #4

I've always been particularly confused by the contract clauses which specify that all work of the employee during their time at the company is property of the company itself. Does this mean that if I develop some completely unrelated software in my spare time while working as a programmer at a large company, that the software I created at home also belongs to my employer? What if I was to write a book during that sam…

I dislike it (and most forward-thinking companies wouldn't risk scaring off people who are the type that work on their own time), however I can see the reasons. How do they know you did it at home, not during work hours? How do they know it didn't affect your work? If you're salaried, there aren't set start/stop times. How do they know they weren't paying you at the time you came up with the idea, or thought through…

That's an awful lot of maybes. Maybe I was a good employee, met my deadlines, respected both company time and my own, and also enjoyed working on pet projects in my free time. It is absolutely absurd that a company feels entitled to my personal work because of "maybe."

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#28

Post by PythonicAlpha »

keypusher wrote: post #4

I've always been particularly confused by the contract clauses which specify that all work of the employee during their time at the company is property of the company itself. Does this mean that if I develop some completely unrelated software in my spare time while working as a programmer at a large company, that the software I created at home also belongs to my employer? What if I was to write a book during that sam…

Don't know the situation in the US, but in Germany you might get some trouble:

(citing myself:)

Don't think, that in Germany the situation is that much better. We might not have those agreements in the contracts, since in Germany there are (luckily) many regulations what can be put into contracts. But the German law has also some specialties: For example, when you make an invention in your free time, even when it has nothing to do with your current job, you must first ask your employer, if he wants to buy the invention, if you want or not.

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#29

Post by the_ancient »

vanattab wrote: post #13
the_ancient wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger problem is not the ideas that relate to your every day job... But Say your a Aerospace Engineer working on rockets and on your off time you write a scifi book, after your done you take it to a publisher, they publish it, and then your employer claims ownership over that book... and sues you That type of shit happens all the time, and while that is an extreme example, there are all kinds of examples like a…

Any examples of when such a thing has happened? I see how those clauses could be construde to apply to such a situation but I have never heard of such an extreme example in practice.

I am trying to find the case, it was a few years ago that I read about the case... it was settled out of court I believe so never went to verdict....

That is the thing with these cases, 90% of the time the result is exactly like the post here earlier today, the former employer makes demands that the employee cease and desist distributing "their" work and the employee having little resources gives in, it never makes it to court.

Re: My Ideas, My Boss’s Property

#30

Post by dave809 »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #20

Don't think, that in Germany the situation is that much better. We might not have those agreements in the contracts, since in Germany there are (luckily) many regulations what can be put into contracts. But the German law has also some specialties: For example, when you make an invention in your free time, even when it has nothing to do with your current job, you must first ask your employer, if he wants to buy the i…

What's stopping you from setting an outrageous price?
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